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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 10:56am

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doninha
    First, this IS a full contact capoeira tournament. I have the DVD and I know plenty of students in their group who have competed in similar. The rules are simple... Takedowns, punching and kicks are all allowed, but they have to be recognized capoeira techniques. No groundfighting, no submissions. Points are given for takedowns and connected strikes. All techniques must be performed from the ginga, otherwise it isn't capoeira anymore and the player is disqualified. That is kinda the defining characteristic of capoeira, BTW.

    The spinning kicks ARE meant to be flashy and deceptive... When someone throws a Meia Lua de Compasso (the spinning kick with one with one hand on the floor), for example, they are rarely expecting to make contact. They are attempting to draw a counterattack from their opponent that will set up a takedown or a further counter. It is necessary to create openings this way for the fighting aspects of the game to be effective (otherwise all of the effective techniques, such as roundhouses [martelo], will be blocked or dodged easily).

    The movements are NOT done in time with the music. The feel of the music is followed, not the exact beat. And the best players are able to break [quebra] their ginga to out-time their opponent. Timing is EXTREMELY important in capoeira...

    Just two cents from a capoeira instructor...

    Doninha
    Thanks.

    It is exactly what like I said. Full contact for Capoeria. It isn't full contact as we expect.

    We are all complimentary of the vids. I personally think it looks cool. I'm just saying it isn't full contact under the rules we tend to accept. You explanation furthers it in that direction.
  2. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 11:11am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashe
    Their senior students did a LOT of in close fighting, BJJ, and weapons work.
    I've heard many times about weapon work in capoeira, usually entailing razors and knives. Can anyone give me anymore info on weapons and how they are used in capoeira?
  3. doninha is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 11:15am


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, I agree. Definitely not traditional full contact. And there are some great up and coming MMA fighters that started in capoeira, but their fighting style is pretty much MMA in practice (though some will swear up and down that they just do capoeira and a little BJJ). Here are some examples:

    Professor Andre Gusmao
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl-_6xwtuU4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wK9KiahXd8

    Barraozinho (Mestre Barrao's son)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezGfmJ0SCoY
  4. doninha is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 11:32am


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Weapons are NOT used in most modern capoeira training, with the exception of "Jogo de Morte," which is a game played with a straight razor held between the first and second toes. Even Jogo de Morte (aka Santa Maria) is VERY rare nowdays. It is a game accredited to Mestre Bimba, also the creator of Capoeira Regional (the precursor to today's modern capoeira), as a means of illustrating the trickery of capoeira.

    In this game, silk scarves were worn around the neck to help prevent serious wounds during the game, although many capoeira historians believe that it was a game specifically meant to illustrate the danger of capoeiristas to a viewing public. In times before Mestre Bimba, the razor (navalha) was known to be hidden somewhere on the capoeirista and if he decided to exact some revenge during the roda, he would cut down the other player and escape. It wasn't part of the game, per se.

    Most weapons were used by capoeiristas outside of the roda. Here is where most people get confused. Capoeira was a hobby. A way to pass the time. Vadiacao. It was NOT a method of learning how to fight. Instead, it was a game practiced by dangerous, tricky people who carried razors and knives everywhere. The two were not mutually exclusive, other than the fact that at one time, most capoeiristas were gang members. And the gang would most likely practice capoeira when things were calm.

    Capoeiristas were phenominal fighters, partially due to their capoeira training (and being paranoid), but mostly because they fought the police and other maltas (gangs) every day. Without guns. Guns were expensive, so you carried a straight razor. And you carried a straightrazor instead of a knife because you could get them for free when the local barber was getting rid of them.

    Today it is an implied part of the game, especially in Capoeira Angola. Many times a player will call a chamada (a call and response ritual, very dangerous with the right player), and one or the other might pretend to cut their opponent with a "hidden" razor. Even in the middle of the game you can often see the "razor" being employed.

    Doninha
  5. doninha is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 11:36am


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And BTW, there are many groups that are beginning to incorporate grappling and weapons into capoeira, but this is a pretty recent phenomenon (Topazio, Muzenza). Different Mestres sometimes have wildly different methods and ideas about capoeira. Like was mentioned earlier in this thread, training method > style.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 1:18pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In a local event, where I formerly lived, a Capo guy knocked a guy out with this:




    They did the typical style announcement. They said Capoeira and we laughed. It was stragiht poor kickboxing at first. We were laughing saying I want to see Capo or it is BS like us kung fu guys that suddenly turn into kickboxers.

    He did the ginga(?) right before and faked the guy out. It was sweet.
  7. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 1:19pm


     Style: Yudo, Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by doninha
    And BTW, there are many groups that are beginning to incorporate grappling and weapons into capoeira, but this is a pretty recent phenomenon (Topazio, Muzenza). Different Mestres sometimes have wildly different methods and ideas about capoeira. Like was mentioned earlier in this thread, training method > style.
    What kind of takedowns are allowed? Rather...are there certain types of takedowns not allowed in Capoeria?

    From vides and other ones I saw, it mostly look like wrestling shoot types (single/double leg, ankle pick, etc.).
  8. doninha is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 2:49pm


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, it is considered bad form to have to shoot an opponent (aka arrastao). It is better to be able to take an opponent off balance with as little work as possible, especially without having to grab them, a la judo. The best ones are similar to hip tosses, leg scissors, etc.

    And the best that I've seen were from high level players that were able to make people fall simply by faking them out. Yes, a no touch knockdown (not knockout). That's where those wide kicks come in handy... Someone goes a bit too fast and falls a little off balance, so the better player takes advantage and make them flinch at a critical moment, and *boom*, they end up tripping themselves. It doesn't happen often, but it is awesome when it does. I'll see if I can find a clip...

    Doninha
  9. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 3:04pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can you explain the full contact rules more? How do they keep the cap look?
  10. rino86 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2007 4:48pm

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     Style: Bjj/Machado/Pittman

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you might be a 1-5 Capoeria fighter, but that 1 knockout with the 540 handstand kick is going to be on the highlight reels for generations.
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