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Thread: Patterns in TKD

  1. #11

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    Ok let me clear this up real quick.....

    1.Do I think that only doing katas will make you some sort of super fighter ...NO

    2.Do I think that kata training can help supplement a persons training ......Yes

    3.Do I think that all the techniques in kata are practical for street use....NO

    4.Do I think that alot of valid techniques are dismissed because they are in kata......Yes

    5.Do I think you will do a technique from a kata the same in a real fight....NO


    Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Little value, if any. If they were really valuable to training, you'd see it more in all of the full-contact martial arts
    Like MMA I guess? Ever hear of Kyokushin..I guess Mas Oyama couldn't fight a lick because he did kata huh?

  2. #12
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtkarate
    Like MMA I guess? Ever hear of Kyokushin..I guess Mas Oyama couldn't fight a lick because he did kata huh?
    He could fight well despite doing kata, not because of it. Kyokushin does well because of the aliveness in the training method. Kata is just a nice artistic exercise and nothing more.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

  3. #13

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    never said kata was the reason he could fight......but even he knew that kata helped to refine and polish your techniques.

  4. #14

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    This should really be a joint thread, between the CMA/KMA/JMA forums.

    I think line drills can be useful, if you're doing techniques as you'd actually do them. It can be a way for a coach/instructor to see how people are doing the techniques. Is it better for the coach/instructor to give you personalized attention while your doing padwork or bagwork, yes but it's not always possible.

    If the point of the class is to teach a person how to fight, I really do not see the point of forms and basics. Why learn to do chambered punches and deep stances if you're never going to use them. If the purpose is exercise/conditioning, well there's better ways of doing that. If the purpose is to teach form and structure, they're better ways of teaching that also.

  5. #15
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtkarate
    never said kata was the reason he could fight......but even he knew that kata helped to refine and polish your techniques.
    How is it that arts get by without kata then? Many combative arts place little, if any, emphasis on kata.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtkarate
    Ok let me clear this up real quick.....

    1.Do I think that only doing katas will make you some sort of super fighter ...NO
    Whew.

    2.Do I think that kata training can help supplement a persons training ......Yes
    Like I said, when you are alone with no training partners and you have ALREADY done running, conditioning, jumping rope, shadowboxing, hitting on a bag, etc, might be ok to do a typical TKD form or two.

    3.Do I think that all the techniques in kata are practical for street use....NO
    Then why not do something that is?

    4.Do I think that alot of valid techniques are dismissed because they are in kata......Yes
    Then why not do the technique itself on a bag or with movement and footwork that resembles something you might actually use?

    5.Do I think you will do a technique from a kata the same in a real fight....NO
    Again, then why do it that way in the first place?

    Like MMA I guess? Ever hear of Kyokushin..I guess Mas Oyama couldn't fight a lick because he did kata huh?
    Go on youtube and search for Kyokushin. Watch the highlights of their best. You find me one where there is a guy doing a full front stance with chambered hands, down blocking or whatever with his chin and chest wide open.

  7. #17

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    What are you trying to do with kata? One basic principle of any kind of physical training is: the more closely it resembles the real situation for which you're training, the better a use of your time it is. My only use for forms is to practise the ones I learned twenty-five years ago. How often? Once a week--just enough so that remember how they go. Why remember them? So that I'll be able to use them for exercise when I've gotten too old to train for real.

  8. #18
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    When I take my kids to their class I go downstairs to the work out area at my Dojo. Do some stretches, skip some rope to get the blood flowing.

    I then do kata, - I have 5 kata's from white to brown belt, do each Kat 3 time, first 2 slow concentrating on form and then the 3rd time fast (with the exception of Sanchin)

    Anyways it takes me about 35 minutes to do them all like this then I do some bag work and then more stretching.

    When I am doing the Kata I am not thinking about fighting or applications just trying to do the kata's right, there's always so much that needs to be worked on, they're physically and mentally demanding, tiring, hard to do and make me feel great.

    As a way of exercising in a way that combines several things at once they're great.

    Usually people who hate on Kata's were either overloaded with useless esoteric Kata's or never taught anything but Kata.

    As one more training tool they have their place.

    As far as other things that do what ever Kata does, sure some do but so what? There's lots of different ways of exercising, I would rather do 35 minutes of Kata over skipping rope any day of the week. (although I still skip rope ...blech...)

  9. #19

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    You'd rather do kata, but which do you you think is better 35min of kata or 35 min of bagwork and shadowboxing (not kata).

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    The way I regard forms now is something like a wai kru in MT - something artistic you do to show your lineage and origins of your system, not an actual training method.
    Exactly. In fact, trying to apply forms to fighting is not only a bad idea, but it's a form of bullshido. From what I can tell, forms in TKD existed originally to create an artifical sense of tradition, but because Koreans never had forms in Taekkyon or Soo Bak or whatever they had to be copied from Karate, like most of TKD. The artifical tradition over time became a legitimate one, and as such are now a centerpiece of Korea's self-promoting, patriotic stab at the martial arts.

    Not that TKD is really all that bad. Many of the techniques make sense, in theory, and in my experience are an improvement over their equivalents in Shotokan. But the point remains that there never was and never will be a practical application for forms in TKD, other than practicing breathing and coordination, and as such should not hold they emphasis that they do.

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