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  1. EricK is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 10:41am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Founder of the style that I currently train in had many years of Association with Juko-Ryu. The High Dans in our system participated in those full power shots to vital areas. The founder of our system decided that this level of training was too extreme, and that it was more important to protect their brains over the long term.

    I have seen very litle of this type of demonstrations, the full power shots to the throat. I know the concepts behind it but don't care to develop it to that level.

    I will say that it is far too easy to disregard Soke Sacharnoski as a qwack and his system as illegetimate, but the full power shots (as I have defended in various forums before) are not the sum of their training. They learn serious jujitsu techniques with very practical applications, and our system has retained those techniques. However, for those willing to go to the lengths as seen on television, those FEW will attain masters rank in Juko-Ryu. That is optional.

    I have seen some of this first hand and I was blown away. I was later told that we develop the findamentals of being able to do this through kata, but we are not told that.

    It is legit, and while it looks too extreme to take seriously it makes a good target for those who don't wish to understand it more thoroughly.

    A lot of those guys have died before their time training on that extreme level.

    Eric
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 12:15pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EricK View Post
    The Founder of the style that I currently train in had many years of Association with Juko-Ryu. The High Dans in our system participated in those full power shots to vital areas. The founder of our system decided that this level of training was too extreme, and that it was more important to protect their brains over the long term.

    I have seen very litle of this type of demonstrations, the full power shots to the throat. I know the concepts behind it but don't care to develop it to that level.

    I will say that it is far too easy to disregard Soke Sacharnoski as a qwack and his system as illegetimate, but the full power shots (as I have defended in various forums before) are not the sum of their training. They learn serious jujitsu techniques with very practical applications, and our system has retained those techniques. However, for those willing to go to the lengths as seen on television, those FEW will attain masters rank in Juko-Ryu. That is optional.

    I have seen some of this first hand and I was blown away. I was later told that we develop the findamentals of being able to do this through kata, but we are not told that.

    It is legit, and while it looks too extreme to take seriously it makes a good target for those who don't wish to understand it more thoroughly.

    A lot of those guys have died before their time training on that extreme level.

    Eric
    I wouldn't call it extreme. I would call it novel at best. For years we've had Shaolin monks hanging bricks by their nuts and bending spears with their throats. It's amazing what people are capable of doing when they're board out of their minds.
  3. EricK is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 12:31pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well Ill tell you one thing, mad respect should go out to anyone who can take full power shots to vital areas. That IS something that, in my humble opinion, is worthy of reckognition. 99% of people never reach those levels.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 12:45pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EricK View Post
    Well Ill tell you one thing, mad respect should go out to anyone who can take full power shots to vital areas. That IS something that, in my humble opinion, is worthy of reckognition. 99% of people never reach those levels.
    You did a study to get that 99% number. Respect is earned and has nothing to do with getting hit in so called vital areas.
  5. EricK is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 1:03pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I respect a martial artist who has spent the amount of years necessary in dilligent training and conditioning to be able to perform feats such as that displayed in Juko-Ryu, exactly as I would honor any martial artist for his or her training regardless of rank or system.
  6. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 2:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kodokan Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KiddReige View Post
    Man, I sorta feel like an idiot. I reread what I wrote, and so many grammitical errors, its rediculous. I understand where Omega's response has come from. I understand all the political drama associated with Juko Kai. However, thats not what I am focusing on. I am trying to find out the historical lineage of Juko Ryu Jujutsu. Because as it stands, Sacharnoski based Juko Kai out of Okinawan practices, and I am unaware of any Okinawan system called "Juko Ryu Jujutsu", or "Jujutsu" at all. Thats what I am intrigued by. As far as I am concerned, what my father has taught me is not McDojo-fied, and it is not watered down at all. It even makes some of my Bujinkan training look silly. Maybe it's just the way my father teaches too though, I don't know. But please help me figure out where this came from. Thanks.
    Necro post, didn't realize when I responded. Still relevant, though.

    Please sit down. The truth can hurt, even if delivered without Omega's flair for words.

    It's all made up. There is no "lineage", because its "founder" made it up. The founder has been demonstrated in court of law to be a fraud on multiple levels regarding military service and martial arts training.


    On a more basic level, JK is not particularly different than modern, western "ju jitsu" "systems" cobbled together from bits and pieces of different arts the "founders" may have studied (seriously or not) over the years.

    There you have it. If you think what your father teaches you is effective, then don't worry about lineage. If you want to find out effectiveness, go somewhere where live sparring is used as a training tool.


    Anyone who seriously trains in an art that trains full contact will be very tough physically and mentally. Magic tricks don't count as martial arts.

    Ben
    Last edited by BKR; 9/23/2010 2:16pm at .
  7. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 2:50pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EricK View Post

    I have seen some of this first hand and I was blown away. I was later told that we develop the findamentals of being able to do this through kata, but we are not told that.
    Kata for conditioning to take strikes?
    I hope you realize that is a complete waste of time...
    It is legit, and while it looks too extreme to take seriously it makes a good target for those who don't wish to understand it more thoroughly.
    What is legit about it? I see nothing legit about standing there and taking strikes. I consider "legit" in Martials Arts techniques being about being effective in combat.

    Parlor tricks are not "legit" unless it can be applied in a live situation.
    A lot of those guys have died before their time training on that extreme level.

    Eric
    I don't believe for a second that a " a lot " (or even one person) of people have died doing this training. Do you have ANY sort of reference or proof to back that claim up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
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  8. EricK is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 3:43pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like I said, it is very easy to see the spectacle of a man getting kicked in the testicles, solar plexus, or punched in the throat on the discovery channel or youtube clips, and immediately be skeptical or disregard it as quackery. My reaction was the same when I learned of some of the things featured in Black Belt Magazine long ago about people taking basebal bat strikes to the throat.

    Effective in combat,
    Taking strikes in such a manner, again, is not the sum of their training. Juko-Ryu practitioners learn practical self defense, jujitsu applications against gun and knife defenses, etc. This aspect is overlooked because it is just another style amognst many, but what seperates it from the others are the full contact strikes to vital areas. This is what gets covered, so it is understandable that many people take the position that "Juko-Ryu is all about standing there taking hits, how it is effective?"
    If you watch the documentary about it, to attain masters rank in Juko-Ryu, you have to go through a set of 7 stages where you are blindfolded and you don't know where the shots are coing from. You are randomly hit at each stage. If you fall and want to continue, you have to start over. This is pretty extreme training, even I agree to that. THis is optional training also. I don't see how anyone can see someone getting kicked in the solar plexus, the groin or a punch in the throat/head/neck and ask how is this effective in combat? Thats like asking me "If you can throw a punch or a kick, how is that effective in combat?" If you can take a hit, isn't that to your advantage? It goes without saying that it is effective. They stand there and take a hit in demonstrations, not on the street.

    See, I se this argument alot, and my answer is, if someone is able to get through all of your other blocks and strikes and manages to land a blow, if you can take the blow (the blow being to a particularly vital area of the body) then logic dictates that your chances of sucessfully walking away from a street encounter are signifigantly higher than someone who CANT take the blow. If you can take a full power shot to the throat, then surely you can defend against a choke with the same principle.

    Learning this through kata,
    Surely you agree that kata teaches you mind and breath control while strengthening your body and this supplimented with bagwork and conditioning is part of it. I didn't say that through kata only was this achieved.


    As respectfully as I can lend my experiences to this discussion, I can't provide you with concrete proof of peoples deaths. Where I get this information from is from longtime members of the Organization that I study with, who, in the 70's, got national reckognition by being affiliated with Juko-Ryu. The founding Sensei and Soke Sacharnoski trained together in the late 60's. You have to agree that this type of training is brutal. It is hard on the body. People who were friends of the guys who trained that hard and died young are my sources.

    Im not going to insist that you believe me, but we have a perspective that is unique because we have reatined many of their techniques and members of our board of directors were directly involved with juko-ryu. I know this because I have seen the patches, I have seen one of our Sensei take a shot to the throat, and I know that these guys aren't the typical types of people who seek reckognition for such things. We just had a training camp over the weekend and this type of training was discussed. The reason why they broke away is because it was "too extreme". Protecting the brain/body from abuse like that is more important.

    Thats all I can really offer on the subject. THese aren't just parlor tricks. Its legit.


    I really can't speak to court cases or allegations of fraud, but whatever the case, the hits are real. Thats what im speaking to.


    Eric
  9. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 4:02pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well Eric since you say so, it is legit now.

    Scripted gun and knife defense drills work.
    Getting hit while fighting is the same as getting hit:
    a. at rest
    b. blind folded
    c. standing
    d. sitting.
    e. not fighting
    Kata is a well known and effective way to prepare yourself for on the fly conflict and dealing with adrenalin dumps and fear.
    Kata is also a well known and effective way to learn how to deal with and react to getting hit.
    Training to take a full power shot to the throat is useful for self defense even tho you are conditioning yourself to not slip and cover your chin.

    I suggest everyone blindly accept Eric's claims that Judo Kai is effective, even tho it flies blindly into the face of logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by EricK View Post
    Like I said, it is very easy to see the spectacle of a man getting kicked in the testicles, solar plexus, or punched in the throat on the discovery channel or youtube clips, and immediately be skeptical or disregard it as quackery. My reaction was the same when I learned of some of the things featured in Black Belt Magazine long ago about people taking basebal bat strikes to the throat.

    Effective in combat,
    Taking strikes in such a manner, again, is not the sum of their training. Juko-Ryu practitioners learn practical self defense, jujitsu applications against gun and knife defenses, etc. This aspect is overlooked because it is just another style amognst many, but what seperates it from the others are the full contact strikes to vital areas. This is what gets covered, so it is understandable that many people take the position that "Juko-Ryu is all about standing there taking hits, how it is effective?"
    If you watch the documentary about it, to attain masters rank in Juko-Ryu, you have to go through a set of 7 stages where you are blindfolded and you don't know where the shots are coing from. You are randomly hit at each stage. If you fall and want to continue, you have to start over. This is pretty extreme training, even I agree to that. THis is optional training also. I don't see how anyone can see someone getting kicked in the solar plexus, the groin or a punch in the throat/head/neck and ask how is this effective in combat? Thats like asking me "If you can throw a punch or a kick, how is that effective in combat?" If you can take a hit, isn't that to your advantage? It goes without saying that it is effective. They stand there and take a hit in demonstrations, not on the street.

    See, I se this argument alot, and my answer is, if someone is able to get through all of your other blocks and strikes and manages to land a blow, if you can take the blow (the blow being to a particularly vital area of the body) then logic dictates that your chances of sucessfully walking away from a street encounter are signifigantly higher than someone who CANT take the blow. If you can take a full power shot to the throat, then surely you can defend against a choke with the same principle.

    Learning this through kata,
    Surely you agree that kata teaches you mind and breath control while strengthening your body and this supplimented with bagwork and conditioning is part of it. I didn't say that through kata only was this achieved.


    As respectfully as I can lend my experiences to this discussion, I can't provide you with concrete proof of peoples deaths. Where I get this information from is from longtime members of the Organization that I study with, who, in the 70's, got national reckognition by being affiliated with Juko-Ryu. The founding Sensei and Soke Sacharnoski trained together in the late 60's. You have to agree that this type of training is brutal. It is hard on the body. People who were friends of the guys who trained that hard and died young are my sources.

    Im not going to insist that you believe me, but we have a perspective that is unique because we have reatined many of their techniques and members of our board of directors were directly involved with juko-ryu. I know this because I have seen the patches, I have seen one of our Sensei take a shot to the throat, and I know that these guys aren't the typical types of people who seek reckognition for such things. We just had a training camp over the weekend and this type of training was discussed. The reason why they broke away is because it was "too extreme". Protecting the brain/body from abuse like that is more important.

    Thats all I can really offer on the subject. THese aren't just parlor tricks. Its legit.


    I really can't speak to court cases or allegations of fraud, but whatever the case, the hits are real. Thats what im speaking to.


    Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  10. Moenstah is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/23/2010 4:03pm


     Style: Nihon Koryu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EricK View Post
    I respect a martial artist who has spent the amount of years necessary in dilligent training and conditioning to be able to perform feats such as that displayed in Juko-Ryu, exactly as I would honor any martial artist for his or her training regardless of rank or system.
    Painful in vital areas, your initiation be here will
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