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  1. KayRoc is offline

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    May 2007
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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 11:49am


     Style: Crappling (BJJ Hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kimura Lock problems

    Hi guys, I need some tips with a submission:

    I am having trouble setting a good Kimura lock when I have someone in my guard. Even on guys near my own arm strength +/- I find it difficult to crank the arm up behind the back. Is there some technique I am overlooking?

    I get the wrist control, get the arm straight and push it towards his side, then go over his arm with my offhand and grab my own forearm, forcing his hand behind his back towards his ear, but just cant seem to get enough leverage for a good crank, or they slip out. Against most the guys I am close to their strength, its frustrating... I only pulled it off once against one of the ladies in class, but that was probably brute strength, not technique.

    It shouldnt be a strength issue, I am 6'1, 185lbs pretty in shape, not burly by any means, but I should have enough oomph to do the job. (I hope)

    Any tips gents? :icon_shak
  2. Chizilds is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 11:55am


     Style: BJJ - SBGi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The thing that helped me was body position. If you are not in a good position, its going to be difficult to get them there.... I always tried to throw my hip to lift one side of their body, if that makes sense... then crank it on. Work the position first... the subs will fall into place after.
  3. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 11:59am


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it's the leverage for applying the actual submission that's the problem, are you scooting your hips out to the side, so your torso is to the side that the kimura is being applied on? I find that scooting out to the side makes it a lot easier to start applying pressure. It should look like this (well, maybe not out so far, but definitely out to the side):

  4. AikidoDeadlines is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 12:04pm


     Style: BJJ blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is really the sort of question you should be asking you instructor, because from your description, it seems like you don't understand the mechanics of the kimura from guard very well. You do not want to straighten their arm, because the lock uses over-rotation of the shoulder. To torque the shoulder most effectively you want a 90 degree angle on the elbow. Secondly you talk about forcing the arm up the back which is not a kimura, but the less effective chicken wing, o hammer lock. To execute a kimura from guard (after you get the kimura grip with whatever setup you like), you want to shift your hips as far to the same side as the arm you have trapped as you can, to create room to rotate your shoulders down. Gluing their elbow to your chest, you want to rotate you shoulders towards the mat, over rotating their shoulder. Rather than "going up their back" their arm will remain disconnected from their body, and will be turning around their shoulder.
  5. KayRoc is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 12:07pm


     Style: Crappling (BJJ Hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ohhh, ok. I was barely to the side when applying it before. I'll work positioning for it tonight, thanks -
  6. ViciousFlamingo is offline
    ViciousFlamingo's Avatar

    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 12:09pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikidoDeadlines
    This is really the sort of question you should be asking you instructor
    ^----- Listen to him.
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 12:24pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AikidoDeadlines
    This is really the sort of question you should be asking you instructor, because from your description, it seems like you don't understand the mechanics of the kimura from guard very well. You do not want to straighten their arm, because the lock uses over-rotation of the shoulder. To torque the shoulder most effectively you want a 90 degree angle on the elbow. Secondly you talk about forcing the arm up the back which is not a kimura, but the less effective chicken wing, o hammer lock. To execute a kimura from guard (after you get the kimura grip with whatever setup you like), you want to shift your hips as far to the same side as the arm you have trapped as you can, to create room to rotate your shoulders down. Gluing their elbow to your chest, you want to rotate you shoulders towards the mat, over rotating their shoulder. Rather than "going up their back" their arm will remain disconnected from their body, and will be turning around their shoulder.
    Which is why it gets moved to Gitmo. Wow, that's a first for me.
  8. KayRoc is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 1:00pm


     Style: Crappling (BJJ Hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was going to ask him tonight too, just thought I'd get as much foreknowledge as I could.
  9. Donkey_Fizzle is offline

    Using Donkey Guard to Sniffz Your Feetz

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 4:36pm


     Style: Kick Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How in the **** does your arm remain "disconnected"????? Wouldn't that bring about serious medical issues and procedures????

    The Kimura, for me (BJJ whores be damned FTW...), works one of two ways. You either use technique or brute fucking strength. If I know I am stronger than the guy then I just latch on, shift my hips, yank it out and twist.
    If I can't Mongo the guy into it then I have to set him up and wait for him to present me with a good opportunity. By either baiting him into a situation where he is in a compromised position or waiting for him to compromise himself. Technique requires diligent observation of where and what your opponents hands are doing (which you should be doing in the first place) and a quick and precise execution to catch him off guard. With the Mongo approach it doesn't matter if the guy knows what your going for before hand you're going to over power him anyway.
    Amateur MMA record: 8-3-1
    Pro MMA record: 3-1
    Status: Semi retarded... I mean retired
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 8:27pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tabwyo
    How in the **** does your arm remain "disconnected"????? Wouldn't that bring about serious medical issues and procedures????

    The Kimura, for me (BJJ whores be damned FTW...), works one of two ways. You either use technique or brute fucking strength. If I know I am stronger than the guy then I just latch on, shift my hips, yank it out and twist.
    If I can't Mongo the guy into it then I have to set him up and wait for him to present me with a good opportunity. By either baiting him into a situation where he is in a compromised position or waiting for him to compromise himself. Technique requires diligent observation of where and what your opponents hands are doing (which you should be doing in the first place) and a quick and precise execution to catch him off guard. With the Mongo approach it doesn't matter if the guy knows what your going for before hand you're going to over power him anyway.

    You block with your face a lot don't you?
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