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  1. Kraka is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 7:11am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Deadlift instead of Squats

    Hi, this is my first post here, ill introduce myself a bit followed by a question.

    My name is Remko, im 28 and from the Netherlands.

    I have been doing cardio combined with some not so serious weight training for the last 1.5 years.

    After doing some research on the intardweb 3 months ago I have improved my diet and weight training schedule (a bit) and gained some results. Went from 155 lbs to 175 lbs, with mostly isolation reps (shoulders, arms, chest mostly).

    Recently I heard I could improve my workout by doing more compound training.

    Now Im looking into a new schedule with compound stuff. Im really liking the look of this one: http://ironworkout.com/20_rep_squat.htm

    I like the stretch idea and the variation with oldschool chin ups and dips.
    Any opinions on this workout? Is it as good as it says it is?

    My question is; I have problems doing Squats. Somehow my legs/feet wont allow me to stay flat footed while in a squat. Can I replace Squats with Deadlifts in this schedule, and will it still be good?

    Cheers.
  2. kwoww is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 7:32am


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as I know, not really, because they work different muscles in different ways (push vs. pull). Maybe someone here with more knowledge *cough El Macho cough* could help you with your squatting problem.

    However, I do hear good things about the 20-rep squat workout, and I think they do it on my high school's football team, comprised wholly of thoroughly big dudes.
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 7:35am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do deadlifts and pistols for my lower body instead of full squats because I don't have a training partner to spot for me and correct my form, so that combo is safer for me.

    Full squats come highly recommended by everybody I read who strength trains and whose opinion I trust. The problem you are describing sounds like a flexibility problem which could be fixed.

    I think the tight muscle giving you a problem is the soleus muscle. I've been told that doing the basic 'lunge' stretch, but with the rear leg bent targets this muscle.
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  4. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 7:57am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, if you can't squat you can sub in deads. It's not perfect, but works a lot of the same stuff in a similar manner.

    But cullion was right - sounds like you have to strech more. Start squatting with just bodyweight or only a bar and work on your form.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 7:57am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Meh, I'm no expert :tongue6: I think Res Judicata, sh0t and Emevas know more about squats than I do... but I think I know what Kraka's problem is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraka
    My question is; I have problems doing Squats. Somehow my legs/feet wont allow me to stay flat footed while in a squat. Can I replace Squats with Deadlifts in this schedule, and will it still be good?
    That's a sign of dorsiflexion inflexibility. The tissue (fascia) that connects your heel to the base of your toes is injured and/or inflamed. As a result, you experience a decrease in ability to flex your foot when the sole is firmly flat on the floor.

    From exrx.net (http://www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Infl...chor13355148):

    Dorsiflexion Inflexibility

    Increase risk of Plantar Fasciitis and difficulty in performing squat and leg press exercises in full range of motion. Plantar fasciitis is a common overuse syndrome occuring in runners and walkers. This sydrome is associated with microtears in the pantar fascia at its insertion into the cacaneus and bone spur formations. High incidences of plantar flexion strength deficits and dorsiflexion range of motion limitations are associated with this condition.

    Dorsiflexion flexibility is required during the lower phases of the squat and leg press. If the range of motion of the ankle is limited, hip flexion may be exagerated and knee flexion is often inhibited. To maintain normal range of motion in both the hip and knee, the heel may have a tendancy to leave the floor or platform.

    • Examples of affected exercises with suggestions for affected individuals until range of motion is restored
      • Leg Press: place feet higher on the platform
      • Squats: wider stance or elevate heels slightly on board or weight plates
      • Range of motion may need to be restricted so heels do not raise at lower portion of exercise
    • Example preventative / corrective exercises:


    I'd say rather than trying to replace squats with deadlifts, you should try to correct the problem you are having with your feet and ankles. You should start by doing each and every corrective and preventative listed above.

    In addition, you should exercise and stretch your tibialis anterior in tandem with your ankles and calves to maintain muscular and flexibility balance.
    Seated calf raises and shin stretches would do the trick.

    In summary, you should try to correct the inflexibility you have in your feet rather than changing squats with something else. Now, if you want to do deadlifts, that's all great and dandy. I like both exercises. But switching from one to the other is just ignoring the root causes of deeper physical issues.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 8:54am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All else being done correctly (important caveat)....

    Simply start with partial squats, and over the course of weeks keep testing the limits of your flexibility....IF that's your problem. It will improve.
  7. ironlurker is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 9:41am


     Style: jkd

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraka
    My question is; I have problems doing Squats. Somehow my legs/feet wont allow me to stay flat footed while in a squat.
    Just to check out another possibility, what type of shoes/sneakers are you wearing when you lift? Crosstrainers or running shoes may make it difficult for you to position yourself when lifting, and they reduce your "feel" for your positioning which may further make you feel like you're positioned strangely. The guys at my gym who lift competitively wear skate shoes when they work out.
  8. Kraka is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 11:54am

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     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all the advice!

    It seems to be Dorsiflexion Inflexibility indeed, I have had infexibility in that region for as long as I can remember.

    I use flat skateshoes in the gym, thats definitely not it.

    The infexibility has never posed uncomfort or any kind of problem in my life before, I wonder if its worth it to go to the trouble of correcting that inflexibility just so I can do Squats when Deadlifts give similar results. It would make my routine more complex.

    Also, I dont have a trainingpartner. Im quite inexperienced in compound excersises and free weight Squats seem more intimidating to do alone than Deadlifts.
    Last edited by Kraka; 6/18/2007 12:01pm at .
  9. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 12:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My take is that you've found a (imbalance/problem area/weakness) in yourself and even if you never squat you should correct it.

    As long as you can dump the bar without injuring yourself you can squat solo.

    If you can grab the book "starting strength" it will show you in great deal how to squat. Also check the squat thread sticky for some good info and vids to lock in your form.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2007 12:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that'd be my take as well. Kraka, you have to understand that this inflexibility will lead to inflamantion of the tissue connecting the base of your toes to your heel bone. You do not want that... at all. For as long as you have that, you won't be able to do squats (and most likely neither leg presses). And, as time goes by, your hips and knees will take the brunt.

    Regardless of whether you switch to deadlifts or stick to squats, you want to correct this inflexibility. It doesn't really take any extra time, and you can do the corrective exercises separate from your main workout (.ie. if you lift at night, you can stretch your calves in the morning followed by bodyweight calf raises.)

    It doesn't take that much effort. Never let inflexibilities and muscular imbalances go unchecked.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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