Fang Shen Do: Tales From the Inner Circle

[Iscariot]

Ghyslain, yet more thanks for your accounts, hopefully you'll stay around and share/verify any other tales from FSD's past.

As regards your most recent post:

All of these were “trendy” at the time.

This is, I believe, where the Japanese swordwork in their syllabus came from, fashion rather than instruction. This is also the reason that I believe FSD are slow to respond to Tom Kagan's questions as they contain my section questioning their qualifications and abilities in said weaponry.

A note to all FSDers, both students and management lurking here: until proven otherwise your Japanese swordwork equals ****. It is my belief that FSD establishment's reluctance to answer questions put forward by Tom Kagan is indicative of their ignorance of any context in this matter. For the sake of the students reading; anyone who is authorised to teach a Japanese sword art will be able to quickly reel off a list of terms and their lineage to prove their authenticity. The names of any legitimate instructor will also be recorded, without exception, at the Hombu of the Koryu in question in Japan. All it takes is a quick series of phone calls to verify this and this information cannot be faked in this manner.

Ghyslain; Was Japanese swordwork introduced whilst you were there?
What were your impressions of it?
From where did the establishment tell you their qualifications came from?

[oilpatchtown]

i think we should be careful and not generalize this behaviour to all FSD schools. It seems that most disturbing stories are "sijo" oriented and happened in the late 80's / early 90's.

I have to disagree with you there, fanger123.

If the entire system is based on roots where (as factual accounts have suggested) domination, humiliation, and aggressiveness (in the form of barroom instigation) are the means by which these instructors and practitioners command respect, then I firmly believe these traits just don't disappear in time. Moreover - I feel they have merely found new ways (albeit less obvious) to continue these traditions, given all accounts/stories I've read about post-1994.

Hey Doug welcome to the forum. As for your above post, what makes you think they aren't still posting on this site/board/thread? Read some of the posts a little more carefully and I think you'll see the 'socket puppets' posts pretty quick!

TKD

PS - OilPatchTown? You in Calgary?

Hi TKD, and thank you.

As I mentioned in my original post, I am from Ottawa and have been on and off for my entire life. I haven't taken immediate note of the trolls and sock-puppets, but I am not dismissing the fact that they exist - nor am I ignorant to their posts on the other FSD threads.

I find it interesting that in the previous threads - those who attempted to take responsibility for accusations made against them still found a way to control their situation. They did this by inviting questions ONLY through email. What do they have to hide? I've read the inconsistencies where they claim to be a friendly MA school, yet post heated replies (with aggressive undertones) and flip-flop back over to being open and inviting.

I will continue to do my research through these forums, and I encourage everyone to continue the debate. I also urge and enhearten any and all students (former and current) to share their stories - even anonymously as Ghyslain has (and so well, I might add).

Ghys, you have my sympathy for the ordeals you went through as a young teen. Such an impression it must have made on you and I can only imagine the feelings of helplessness and 'wanting to fit in' you must have endured as a young person wanting to study for all the right reasons.

It's clear Patenaude loved Ghys, and wanted him to stay (having been so personable to him as told in his accounts).

My question to Ghys - was it tough 'getting out'? By what means?

Thanks

Doug

[Crazy Mount]

You know, after reading all of Ghyslain's accounts of past FSD I find myself wondering why some of the instructors still associate themselves with JP. I mean, I know a lot of them have the same personalities, intentions, and craziness as JP does, and some of them are family, but there are a couple of them that I know question JP's actions. Is it because they've been a part for so long and JP has had them prove their loyalty, or have they been covering their eyes for so long that they just continue to do so and play dumb. There are instructors that have no where else to turn and literally idolize JP as though he were the next prophet. And then there are some who seem to have a very individual and independant mind set, that you'd think would bring up so many flags when going through with half of JP's ****. What about Scott who was used as a thug for JP's encounters. I heard that he was the one that had to storm into Brian Dean's school. I also heard that he was the only one there that was telling Brian to remain calm and everything would just end. Of course this is the condensed version and like Ghyslain has said is 2nd hand, but nonetheless, from the story I heard it sounds as if Scott was the only one there that was thinking rationally and not like a crazy lunatic like some of the others were. I doubt that it was because he was scared, but moreso because he knew what was right. Instructors like Alain from Laval who remains quiet in the background. Is he just trying to sweep up as much money as he can, is he afraid of the reprecussions of branching off, or does he just follow Martin and turn a blind eye to JP. I guess it's a combination of all three. These guys nod and say "yes sir" to JP but I have often got the feeling that they question a lot of the ****. I wonder how many of them sat there at the training camp when the dog **** was passed around and found themselves saying, "WTF are we doing this for? WTF does this have to do with training?".

Speaking of the Brian Dean story, are he and JP still in court, or is that lawsuit finally done and over with? What were the results? I don't have a lot of access to this **** in Halifax. Why doesn't Mr. Dean post the truth and "1st Hand" story of the **** that went on. Maybe it's because he's still in court over it, I don't know.

I guess I'm bothered a little by some of these instructors. I mean guys like me who were close to the "inner circle" and were being reeled into the group, finally left because of the **** we could see happening around us. We finally woke up one day and said, "something is seriously wrong here and I've been ignoring what my gut has been telling me all this time." There are a few of these instructors that I know couldn't have gotten to where they are right now without have seeing this same ****, or waking up wondering what I had wondered so many times. I can understand that the three sons and Pat, being raised the way they were, wouldn't see this, but the others had different parenting and I know all of them weren't brought up by men like JP.

[fanger123]

oilpatch
i have to call it as it is, and based on my 2 year stint at FSD in montreal, i have never seen intimidation or threatening behaviour.

i did see the head instructor lose his cool once, but it was justified (an idiot broke a mirror because he ran another fanger into it, ignoring the sBP's call to break up).

i also had no "issues" when i quit, though based on the stories from this board, i remain anonymous.

ghyslain
thank you for your post, and answering my question regarding the silat connection! i'm not surprised sJP made that rather uncultivated assumption that silat was a filipino art, since apparently he spurts out racial/prejudiced comments from time to time.

crazymount
i think most instructors stay because their LIVING is now closely linked with FSD. quitting FSD means having to find a new job perhaps?

this is one thing that i find most disturbing about FSD. giving young guys/girls the "hope" of owning a FSD school, and leaving them to deal with the sordid history/lack of qualification/credentials/non functional techniques. of course, the said young guys/girls had to join the leadership club at a fee!

[n00b]

crazymount
i think most instructors stay because their LIVING is now closely linked with FSD. quitting FSD means having to find a new job perhaps?

I think you're close here.

Intimidation: nearly universally, anyone who left has a bad story. The instructors even more so.

...but if you read between the lines a bit (and just plain read the business article on JP's franchises), you see that a school owner is tied directly to JP until he pays back the franchise fee. That alone would give a guy making decent money with bills to pay some serious second thoughts about jumping off the money train. It's nice to SAY why don't you leave, but someone with kids and a mortgage and no education isn't going to just dump their school and go back to making minimum wage. It's even worse with that franchise fee hanging over one's head.

[myrmecophilous]

I think you're close here.

Intimidation: nearly universally, anyone who left has a bad story. The instructors even more so.

...but if you read between the lines a bit (and just plain read the business article on JP's franchises), you see that a school owner is tied directly to JP until he pays back the franchise fee. That alone would give a guy making decent money with bills to pay some serious second thoughts about jumping off the money train. It's nice to SAY why don't you leave, but someone with kids and a mortgage and no education isn't going to just dump their school and go back to making minimum wage. It's even worse with that franchise fee hanging over one's head.

Not to mention the fact that most instructors only own 49% of their school, the other 51 being owned by another more "senior" sifu.

Indeed I believe the reason is financial. I'm positive that at the prices they charge, the sifus - once they have their school up and running well enough - make a great living. If they leave the organization, what are they going to do? Apart from facing reprisals, they have no qualifications or skills that they can market without reference to FSD.

So some buy in, some try to rationalize, some keep their heads down and tolerate, others try to make improvements and maybe create distance.. but you can only go so far when another sifu can pull the rug out from underneath you at any point.

[Mr. T.]

What about Scott who was used as a thug for JP's encounters. I heard that he was the one that had to storm into Brian Dean's school. I also heard that he was the only one there that was telling Brian to remain calm and everything would just end. Of course this is the condensed version and like Ghyslain has said is 2nd hand, but nonetheless, from the story I heard it sounds as if Scott was the only one there that was thinking rationally and not like a crazy lunatic like some of the others were.

Scott seems like a nice guy. A few years back, I came across them at a bar. All the sifus were there and the more seniors instructors. I sat with them for a brief time. I had only met Scott that night and he was the only one that tried to strike up a conversation with me. As well, he was the only one that offered me a beer at his expense.

[monster888]

Now is that marketing or friendship? If they were good marketers or really good friends then all of them would have appraoched you and made you feel more welcomed. I hate to compare the 2 but understand how they can be the same and different. It is a delicate subject and I would expect this issue would/should be discussed at a school that knows it's marketing.

Scott seems like a nice guy. A few years back, I came across them at a bar. All the sifus were there and the more seniors instructors. I sat with them for a brief time. I had only met Scott that night and he was the only one that tried to strike up a conversation with me. As well, he was the only one that offered me a beer at his expense.

[Mr. T.]

Now is that marketing or friendship? If they were good marketers or really good friends then all of them would have appraoched you and made you feel more welcomed. I hate to compare the 2 but understand how they can be the same and different. It is a delicate subject and I would expect this issue would/should be discussed at a school that knows it's marketing.

Well at the time, I was a student and only knew my sifu and his instructors. I saw my sifu sitting there and approached him. They weren't cruising the bar for new recruits and handing out free beers if that's what you were thinking.

Scott came back from the bathroom or something and sat next to me. Maybe I was in his seat, I don't remember. We talked very briefly and I don't recall him trying to get me to join the BBC or the inner circle or anything.

As I said earlier, Scott was the only one that made an effort. I was trying to relay my experience with Scott and to back an earlier post indicating how he might be different from the others.

[fanger123]

monster888 and Mr. T, i'd like if you can detail more about your experiences with FSD. though there are posts in newbietown, i'd like to hear more...

like how long you trained, what ranks you achieved, the experiences with the seminars, whether quitting FSD was easy, etc.