Fang Shen Do: Tales From the Inner Circle

**TKD Black Belt** · Posted On: 6/16/2007 1:59pm

Originally Posted by Askari

Another version of the Homeless Story was posted on Bullshido already. The two stories are similar enough that it could be the same story from two different angles. Or they just had a lot of homeless people walking in to Catherine St. that got beat up by sJP.

This is true although when the story was relayed to me I was asked to leave out the location as the teller was concerned they would be identified by that aspect of the story. It is also of note that everyone associated with this group speaks of the continued 'fear' of the group.

To the Original Posting, thank you very much. If what you say is true (and I say that as I reserve judgment on everything I read of late) the difficulty it must have presented to tell this story must have been quite substantial. A number of people who experience 'grooming' behavior either dismiss it out of disbelief or bury it out of shame. I would also agree that both the story of the drink and the bum story carry overtones that are insidious in nature.

I suspect this may not be the 'boom' we were told to prepare for but a 'boom' nonetheless....

TKD

**andrewa** · Posted On: 6/16/2007 2:42pm

Regarding the BumFight stories: The old Catherine St location for FSD was in the downtown core of Ottawa and if I recall not far (walking distance) from the Salvation Army on Gladstone/Bank st. The Isabella St location was also in same area. I'm sure a bum wandered into Patenaude's school on more than one occasion.

Something Ghyslain did in his post was to recall the pre-FSD days of Patenaude's Kung-Fu. When I first heard of Patenaude's in 1990 by a friend who went there for a while it sounded like what Ghyslain described as opposed to the FSD era of seminars, NLP, belt-testing fees etc. I mention this as it points to the authenticity of Ghyslain's story. Someone who simply followed the FSD theads on Bullshido would not know about the pre-1994 days.

**Zoso4** · Posted On: 6/16/2007 7:47pm

man that had to be one of the most fucked up things ive ever heard and i thought my TKD school was bad with there three year contracts and 4000 dollar become an instructor programs

**Crazy Mount** · Posted On: 6/16/2007 9:48pm

Wow, that is quite the detailed piece of work Ghyslain. I don't doubt any of it for I have seen sJP's temper and fanatic behavior. I often wondered what it was like during the earlier years. I had joined around 1994 and was a member for about eleven years. I remember sJP losing it on a guy during a Sunday bbc meeting once. We had all driven from Montreal for this thing and some of the guys had went out drinking the night before. JP tore a strip off this guy because he yawned while JP was speaking. JP took it very personally and reamed him out because he went out all night drinking etc..... The funny thing was that this guy wasn't along with the Montreal group when they went out the night before. He was at home in bed preparing for the BBC meeting the next day. The guys that went out, who are now instructors with their own schools, including Martin, stayed out all night getting pissed when this poor sap didn't go out, and was humiliated the next day because JP assumed he was hungover. The poor kid was so scared, and I guess we all were, because for some of us that was the first time we seen JP's other side. We all sat there, now afraid to yawn, have our eyes wander, take a deep breath, sigh or anything else that might have been mistaken as an attack on JP. (Believe me, it was hard because we all know how JP can ramble on with his stories) After the meeting the kid actually went and apologized to JP for his ignorance.

I also once seen Martin explode on an individual because he wouldn't go down on one of their take downs. I believe it's take down four when your defending from a Karatae block. A few of us were doing the drill and couldn't put this guy to his knees with the take down, so we asked Martin to show us the correct way. Martin did the take down and couldn't put this guy down either. Martin took it as a personal insult, so he opened up with a succession of double chung choies and a round house. He broke the guys glasses, bloodied his nose, and of course the guy later apologized for not being a good student. The school is all built around fear. We were so afraid to quit or say anything eventhough our guts were telling us that something was so very wrong.

I can also share a story with you where one of the instructors was grappling with me and I had to tap out to save him the embarassment of not being able to do anything constructive on the ground. It's really embarassing for me now to admit that I too pretended to be defeated to help my instructor save face. Why did I do that? We're all there to learn right? He kept trying to do some version of an armbar but didn't know how to do it so he kept trying to twist, pull and manevour me to tap. It was really sad. Afterwards, one of the students asked me if it actually hurt. From where he was sitting the move didn't look like it was doing anything. I told him that it did hurt, and yet inside my head I was asking what is it that I'm really learning? It wasn't long after that when I left. (Eleven years later) In retrospect I think what's really sad is the instructor who while walking away, was either thinking that he knew what he was doing, or questioning himself if he knew anything about grappling at all?

**n00b** · Posted On: 6/17/2007 12:26pm

Originally Posted by Crazy Mount

I also once seen Martin explode on an individual because he wouldn't go down on one of their take downs. I believe it's take down four when your defending from a Karatae block.

I thought takedown four was one of the non-takedown takedowns, where you kick the knee, poke the eyes, and then the guy gets scared and puts his hands up so you can do the wrist escape #1 on him?

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Still, the advice was always, oh if he doesn't go right down, start punching and kicking until he does.

**TKD Black Belt** · Posted On: 6/17/2007 2:45pm

Originally Posted by n00b

Still, the advice was always, oh if he doesn't go right down, start punching and kicking until he does.

That sounds like generally 'good advice'.

I'm wondering, now that we have stories that confirm what was initially dismissed out of hand by the FSD crew, if we'll see anyone else come forward with insights from the inside. With the number of posters who have detailed what 'was' happening I'd like to hear from people who are still involved and what they feel about this.

I know we have a few FSDers who still read this thread, Stephane, and the myriad (that means 'a lot') of Sockpuppets who still post...

TKD

**n00b** · Posted On: 6/17/2007 3:01pm

Originally Posted by TKD Black Belt

That sounds like generally 'good advice'.

TKD

I believe it is. Especially given the high percentage rate on FSD takedowns.

**Crazy Mount** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 10:52am

We have the right take down noob. #4 is the one! Remember after you gouge for the eyes and the opponent puts his hands up. You then proceed into that wrist escape where you try to grind the nerve on the back of the elbow to force him down. It was kind of funny when Martin did it because the guy didn't seem to mind the nerve pain he probablly was feeling, and he was so incredibly flexible in his shoulder that he had no need to go down. He just kept trying to turn around to face Martin so he hobbled around like a two legged dog trying to face Martin and Martin followed him around in a circle trying to push harder and harder on the guys nerve to drop him to his knees. They made like ten to fifteen circles before Martine realized how ridiculous they both looked. That's when he flipped out. The guy could've flipped out also but of course didn't because why should he? We were all there to learn. The point I'm trying to make is how incredibly stupid there school of thought is when it comes to teaching. All that kind of uncontrollable loss of temper does is teach the student to fake that the technique is working even if it isn't. This is exactly what I did in the future and Ghyslain did also. Stupid way to teach, and no one ends up really learning or advancing.

**n00b** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 10:55am

Originally Posted by Crazy Mount

The point I'm trying to make is how incredibly stupid there school of thought is when it comes to teaching. All that kind of uncontrollable loss of temper does is teach the student to fake that the technique is working even if it isn't. This is exactly what I did in the future and Ghyslain did also. Stupid way to teach, and no one ends up really learning or advancing.

No argument from me. My half remembered wrestling always took care of any trouble I was having in FSD Sparring.