1. #201

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    MMC

    Maybe it refers to 2% er....MC....?? just throwing you a bone Askari....a red/white dragon bone..

  2. #202

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    CBC Morning Show

    Hey, Listen to this:

    http://cbc.ca/ottawa/media/audio/ott...re(Ottawa).ram

    Its a nice interview with Jacques Patenaude on CBC Morning.

    If the firewalk story doesn't automatically open, it is part of the list on:
    http://www.cbc.ca/ottawamorning/archives.html

    So there is one legit certification, certified by Tony Robins.
    Last edited by Askari; 8/22/2007 6:46am at .
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"

  3. #203
    TKD Black Belt's Avatar
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    PPS: The Firewalk is a great opportunity to make a difference in the life of someone you care about—a friend, a colleague, a spouse or partner, or another family member. It's also a great, risk-free way to introduce people to Fang Shen Do and the Patenaude Kung Fu family of students, club owners and managers, as well as to our excellent training camp and retreat. Therefore, for a limited time with your reservation, you may take 20% off the price of your seminar for each student you enroll personally into a Fang Shen Do class. We'll include details about this "Buddy Bonus" referral program with your information package. Be sure to leave your name and email address above.
    Sexy...

    TKD

    THIS IS NOT AN EXIT


    "Ladies and gentlemen, the pilot has instructed everyone to sit the **** down and shut the **** up." Henry Rollins

  4. #204
    myrmecophilous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    Sure, would love to compare, especially since my previous experience was in judo, a long time ago but still there ......... The other "more alive" arts seem to be well hidden/hard to find but maybe I'm not looking hard enough. The ones I've found weren't all that alive.
    Wait, what? Seriously? You're telling us you can't find a BJJ or Muay Thai school anywhere?

  5. #205

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    To reply to Askari - Credentials have never been the final or definitive proof of someone's ability. This would apply in most of life as well as any martial art or other professional qualification. We have all seen/heard/experienced folks who claim to be qualified but just can't perform. Yes, credentials are an indication but (to me) are not the proof. I judge more by what I see for myself.

    As for MMC skills, I guess I mean the whole array of fighting art techniques mixed into one, i.e. punching/hand skills, kicking, grappling, throwing, ground work (hold-downs, chokes, ground+pound), etc. In addition to this is all the weapons, starting with sticks but developing into all the other stuff I don't need to go into detail about.

    I agree with you the peripheral stuff with firewalking, sticking an arrow against your throat, etc to me is not helpful, i.e. I am not convinced there is any benefit from it (for me). Also because I have other (church & family) commitments on weekends, I will not be going to the Training Camp which will limit me to green sash, but I do not have any aspirations to be "king of the cage" or other such. It's just a form of keeping in shape & learning an art at the same time. So far it's working out that way, except with the cycle of bruises/mild injuries & recovery that must be common to anyone who does any amount of sparring in any kind of realistic way.

  6. #206

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    To reply to Myrmecophilous - To me Mai Thai isn't really a form of MMC - kinda too specific in one art form. OK, what's BJJ?

  7. #207
    n00b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    To reply to Askari - Credentials have never been the final or definitive proof of someone's ability. This would apply in most of life as well as any martial art or other professional qualification. We have all seen/heard/experienced folks who claim to be qualified but just can't perform. Yes, credentials are an indication but (to me) are not the proof. I judge more by what I see for myself.

    Whoa, so you are saying you have WITNESSED 'Sijo' being able to fight? Who has he fought, what tournaments has he won, what other arts have been vanquished? I think you know the answer.

    Or are you saying that they don't need credentials AND they don't need any real proof of skill for you to think they're just peachy? It's that super cool red dragon again isn't it? I love it too, but I don't know how you can bow before the superior skills of people who have never been shown to have superior skills, OR shown to be at least certified by someone who has skills.

    The reality is, except for the very few recent matches, almost no Fanger, Sijo, Sifu, or Seethrough, has EVER tested their skills against anyone but other fangers, or drunk bar patrons, according to the evidence. And every month or so someone like you shows up and thinks they can educate the poor deluded masses.

    The reality is, you're not learning to fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    To reply to Myrmecophilous - To me Mai Thai isn't really a form of MMC - kinda too specific in one art form. OK, what's BJJ?
    Muay Thai is a standup fighting art. Test what you have learned against it.

    Find someone who practices one of the following: Wrestling, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Judo, Sambo (and I'm sure there are more i'm just lazy), there's lots of it in this city. Find someone with the same amount of time in their art as you have in FSD and TRY IT. Fangers often talk about 'less talk more action'.

    Try out the grappling you're learning against Judo/Sambo/BJJ/Wrestling. Watch in awe as your Canadian Grappling is exposed for what it is.

    The indication of the standup battle between FSD and Muay Thai indicates that the very best FSD is about on a par with standard Muay Thai club fighters, and THAT much success was due to conditioning more than skill.

    MY credentials?

    I've got a brown sash in your art. It's reasonably recent. It's close to worthless.

  8. #208

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    With reference to my first thread on this forum, I mentioned I felt this was the next generation. sJP does not teach in the regular classes. His sons, son-in-law & many others who are not family-related (English & French) are sifu's & teach. One of them, sifu Pat Marcil has posted on this forum a while back & related how he & sifu Scott took part in a UFC in Laval, Montreal with only 1 week's notice & prep. They both won their fights conclusively, in a matter of a couple of minutes. These are the sifu's who teach on a regular basis. So your point becomes fairly mute about sJP & so I can't accept your point that they have never tested their skills against other outsiders except in bar fights, etc altho working as a bouncer in a local club must expose you to just about anyone in an uncontrolled environment.

    I fully accept that I'm at the beginning stages, but enjoy being stretched to the limits of my ability without being destroyed. FSD does that for me. I do not purport to be trying to educate anyone - this is simply my 2 cents, my perspective - to take or leave, right or wrong as any forum should be.

    From what you're saying, to get a true MMC experience I would have to go back to judo (did this for about 7 years a long time ago, bust my toes, cracked ribs, etc) Muay Thai & maybe Jiu Jitsu as well. Isn't there one out there that combines them all or approaches to an all-round MMC? If not, FSD seems to be the closest, which may be not what you want to hear, but hey - I'm listening.

    I would like very much to see an open fight between equivalent levels of FSD & Muay Thai fighters - just haven't had this opportunity yet & am not at an advanced enough level to try this out myself. But I still don't know why you feel your brown sash is "close to worthless" because you would have developed at least some appreciable level of skill that must have some read-across to other arts, no matter how acrimonious your feelings are towards FSD.

  9. #209
    n00b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    With reference to my first thread on this forum, I mentioned I felt this was the next generation. sJP does not teach in the regular classes. His sons, son-in-law & many others who are not family-related (English & French) are sifu's & teach.
    I know, my brown sash is RECENT, not 10-20-30 years old.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    One of them, sifu Pat Marcil has posted on this forum a while back & related how he & sifu Scott took part in a UFC in Laval, Montreal with only 1 week's notice & prep. They both won their fights conclusively, in a matter of a couple of minutes.
    If you had read the quotes, there is evidence that Pat did not win his fight, and the neither of them were up to snuff with regards to fighting technique.

    My point stands.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    From what you're saying, to get a true MMC experience I would have to go back to judo (did this for about 7 years a long time ago, bust my toes, cracked ribs, etc) Muay Thai & maybe Jiu Jitsu as well. Isn't there one out there that combines them all or approaches to an all-round MMC?
    I'm not sure if you qualified what "MMC" is, but if you can't make FSD work against a real opponent, (ie: someone not in your own art), then what good is it? You don't have to 'go back' to anything, but you should have some idea of whether or not what you're learning works, you can do that by visiting an old judo buddy and trying it out. You certainly can't do it by perusing your teachers certificates and/or fight histories.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    But I still don't know why you feel your brown sash is "close to worthless" because you would have developed at least some appreciable level of skill that must have some read-across to other arts, no matter how acrimonious your feelings are towards FSD.
    I know, I know, you think I bash FSD because I 'hate' the practitioners or something idiotic like that.

    I know all the Fang moves, I memorized them, and then I went and tried BJJ (and some Muay Thai, but I don't claim any skill yet) and got smoked a whole lot, and I'm slowly learning how to fight now.

    Pretty much the only thing that carries over is the cardio and the agressive attitude. These are not worth the many thousands of dollars when you could be gaining those things AND fighting ability somewhere else.

    Seriously, see if any of your 'wrist escapes' or 'phon saos' work at ALL when a judo practitioner is trying to throw you.

    The answer is, you are memorizing and practicing crap moves that will hurt you in real life altercations, and in doing so, wasting valuable time you could be using to learn to fight. The 'gains' you make are nothing you couldn't get in a gym for much cheaper.

  10. #210

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    Everything else has been addressed, I'll just add the following small points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    To reply to Askari - Credentials have never been the final or definitive proof of someone's ability.
    That's OK, I am not certified to be a Doctor, but if you want to pay me thousands of dollars I am very willing to perform a vasectomy.

    ... ... ... ... ... ...

    Interested?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lurchalot
    took part in a UFC in Laval,
    So now its the UFC they participated in eh? Funny how I dont find them in any record of a UFC event anywhere, and that the UFC has never held an event in Canada.

    Funny how stories with very little foundation change continously over time.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"

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