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  1. andrewa is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    549

    Posted On:
    7/29/2008 8:09pm


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is from the June 4 blog

    http://www.fangshendo.com/blog/2008/...in-aylmer.html

    "Last Sunday was Aylmer Kung-Fu's Grand-Opening. Located at 117 Rue Front, (Riverview Plaza)
    With it's 3000 square feet it is now the largest multi-discipline training center in Aylmer and surrounding areas. The curriculum includes Fang Shen Do Kung-Fu (The Patenaude Family System), Sanshou (Chinese Kick Boxing), & Therien's Jiu Jitsu & Kickboxing all under one roof."

    The "jiu-jitsu" at the downtown location is probably a similar arrangement.
  2. Cdnronin is offline

    Ghost of Kawaishi

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    757

    Posted On:
    7/30/2008 7:36am


     Style: judo, parenting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know if it is splitting hairs, but the Aylmer location is not a Therien club. Todd Tuttle has started up the club, he is a former Therien instructor,but notice the club name is Aylmer jiu jitsu. I have no doubt the curriculum will be similar to Therien's, with whatever spins Todd will put on his version. Different uniforms, logos, etc. Confusing? Yes.
  3. Shifty is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22

    Posted On:
    7/30/2008 1:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian JJ, former FSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, FSD affiliating with another martial art. I spent several years with them and never heard a single positive comment towards a different martial art. Oh well, since then I have taken my business elsewhere. And who knows, maybe there is still hope for them yet...but probably not. I watched a few videos from another thread and got chills/gags watching (and remembering) the way that the instructors spoke at the students and it comforts me to know that I got out of that environment and into a more inviting and productive one.
  4. fanger123 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    499

    Posted On:
    7/30/2008 8:23pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewa
    This is from the June 4 blog

    http://www.fangshendo.com/blog/2008/...in-aylmer.html

    "Last Sunday was Aylmer Kung-Fu's Grand-Opening. Located at 117 Rue Front, (Riverview Plaza)
    With it's 3000 square feet it is now the largest multi-discipline training center in Aylmer and surrounding areas. The curriculum includes Fang Shen Do Kung-Fu (The Patenaude Family System), Sanshou (Chinese Kick Boxing), & Therien's Jiu Jitsu & Kickboxing all under one roof."

    The "jiu-jitsu" at the downtown location is probably a similar arrangement.
    there are no signs of therien jj, just FSD.

    i think they are teaching JJ by association, by that ONE location in Alymer. like that cage fighting. i'm pretty sure there's no cage at the downtown location (but there might be one at gatineau).

    more misleading advertising.
  5. greenguy is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    177

    Posted On:
    7/30/2008 8:35pm


     Style: Former FSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This about ices it. I was at the GAMMA No Gi tournament last Saturday. I was sure that I saw Martin Patenaude. Mostly I was in denial that it could be him, but relative to this thread it now makes sense. I searched the website of his team: Arts Martiaux Evolution. I found this following:

    http://www.artsmartiauxevolution.com/gamma_photos.html

    In the top left photo, he might be the guy furthest to the right with the blue pants, black hoodie, and red-ringed blue t-shirt. In the top right photo, he might be the guy furthest to the left with the grey cut off rash guard. Scroll down to the bottom on the left - the guy in guard, grey cut-off rash guard may be him.

    I don't know this is him, but I am pretty sure. He didn't recognize me or just wasn't looking.

    I have pointed out before that many of the criticisms about Fang Shen Do included things such as the fact that they didn't compete and that they were insular. If this was, in fact, Martin Patenaude, he is competing and training outside of the Fang Shen Do system. Stephane is apparently training with the Therien guys.

    Without actually going to see what they are doing with this jiu jitsu in the Fang Shen Do schools and within their curriculum, it would seem that they are trying to address some of the criticisms leveled at them by the posters here. The assumption must be that Jacques Patenaude knows his two oldest boys are training outside the system. Whether this is actually a good thing, or if it turns into a bastardization of BJJ or JJJ is yet to be seen.

    The only criticism of this jiu jitsu advertising is that they can't really know too much just yet. Perhaps they have attained a blue between the two of them. Should they really be teaching jiu jitsu without more expertise?
  6. Shifty is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22

    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 9:29am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian JJ, former FSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by greenguy
    This about ices it. I was at the GAMMA No Gi tournament last Saturday. I was sure that I saw Martin Patenaude. Mostly I was in denial that it could be him, but relative to this thread it now makes sense. I searched the website of his team: Arts Martiaux Evolution. I found this following:

    http://www.artsmartiauxevolution.com/gamma_photos.html

    In the top left photo, he might be the guy furthest to the right with the blue pants, black hoodie, and red-ringed blue t-shirt. In the top right photo, he might be the guy furthest to the left with the grey cut off rash guard. Scroll down to the bottom on the left - the guy in guard, grey cut-off rash guard may be him.

    I don't know this is him, but I am pretty sure. He didn't recognize me or just wasn't looking.

    I have pointed out before that many of the criticisms about Fang Shen Do included things such as the fact that they didn't compete and that they were insular. If this was, in fact, Martin Patenaude, he is competing and training outside of the Fang Shen Do system. Stephane is apparently training with the Therien guys.

    Without actually going to see what they are doing with this jiu jitsu in the Fang Shen Do schools and within their curriculum, it would seem that they are trying to address some of the criticisms leveled at them by the posters here. The assumption must be that Jacques Patenaude knows his two oldest boys are training outside the system. Whether this is actually a good thing, or if it turns into a bastardization of BJJ or JJJ is yet to be seen.

    The only criticism of this jiu jitsu advertising is that they can't really know too much just yet. Perhaps they have attained a blue between the two of them. Should they really be teaching jiu jitsu without more expertise?
    The guy in the pictures does look somewhat like Martin, but I'm pretty sure that it is not him. Besides, I'm pretty sure he knows that there would be many ex-fsd students who do BJJ now who could easily recognize him at an event like this. I think that the FSD instructors are far too cocky to be seen doing something in public that isn't FSD, especially because they run the risk of losing.
  7. fanger123 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    499

    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 11:32am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    judging from the topless pics of martin on the FSD blogs, i think martin is bigger than the guy on the picture. i don't think it's him...
  8. fanger123 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 11:33am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    what's your story, shifty?

    where did you train?
  9. Shifty is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    22

    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 1:02pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Brazilian JJ, former FSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't want to get into which location I trained at or the rank I achieved because I believe I left the organization on good terms and I haven't had any particularly terrible experiences like the ones I have read in other posts...mostly just build up of crap over time. Gotta love the anonimity of the internet.

    I trained with fsd for roughly 6 years and noticed a lot of things mentioned, such as the "chain of command" so to speak. When I first joined it was mostly for fun and to get come martial arts experience but then training became a very big part of my life. After a couple of years I noticed that it was a very repetitive curriculum that they were teaching (or i just have an amazing memory lol). Anyway, I joined the Black Belt Club after about a year and a bit, did just about every seminar that they offered at least once, and even attended 4 training camps over the time that I trained there (including the one with the doggy doo doo).

    I had no experience with martial arts before fsd so I had nothing to compare it too, therefore believing that it was the end all of martial arts. I was never harrassed or abused or anything, but just based on some of the personalities of the owners that I've met, these accusations are not unbelievable. Everyone also seemed to "worship" Sijo Patenaude and the other Sifu's and never questioned anything that they said. Being how I am, I like to have verification on why and how things work, but I felt discouraged from questioning anything that I was told, even though I was never told not to. I think that this was the case with many people, because when everyone around you worships the person teaching and absolutely agrees with anything that they say, people generally don't want to stand out as the person who doesn't agree or doesn't believe what they are being told. The only time I felt comfortable asking questions about the things I was being shown, aside from how to do them, was when I could get attention one on one because no soldiers were judging me.

    While I was there, I had heard the same stories as everyone else about different things but didn't make much of it because it didn't really pertain to me individually.

    A big issue for me, as with many, was the money. At first I was paying roughly $110.00 per month over a 1 year term. I did this twice, but upgraded to the BBC while I was still in my second year term. That balance was put towards my BBC membership, which was then costing me about $135.00 per month over a 5 year contract. After a while the program completely changed, where instead of taking optional sparring and weapons seminars, they became included in the BBC program with jumped up to 165.00 per month and later raised another $10 more, plus a mandatory $90.00 annual fee for buying themselves christmas gifts or something, I don't really know.

    Another money issue was how to learn certain things, more had to be payed. For a regular non-bbc student to train in grappling, sparring, or weapons, they either had to pay for a certain number of classes that they could attend, or join the bbc. Then there would be things that that they didn't teach to BBC students, and to learn these things they would have to join the leadership team or masters club (leadership team and masters club eventually became one and the same). And so on with the inner circle. On top of that, there were things that they would only teach in certain seminars or training camp. I eventually realized that they were making wayyy too much money from me when the things that I was being shown in these extra events were not that different from what I was doing in classes, and if it was something new, it was typically overly useful. Needless to say, I stopped doing seminars.

    Aside from the shady money stuff, and the weird "godly figure" vibe i got, I mostly enjoyed the training side of my time there. The fitness aspect of my training was really tough and I liked most of the other students in my location which made it a fun environment to train in, but it was different at seminars and BBC meeting with Martin of Jacques, where everyone was very serious and a little bit too loyal.

    I eventually got a new job which took time a lot of away from my training and I didn't feel like I was getting very good value for what I was paying so I stopped training there, something that I had been thinking about doing for a long time leading up to me quitting just over a year ago.

    I was always treated with respect from Sijo Patenaude and the other Sifu's and don't have anything bad to say about any people in particular, because they were respectful and nice to me. I don't see this as a hopeless system or martial art, but one with a chance to greatly improve...especially on the business side of things.

    I don't mind truthfully speaking about my experiences, but I won't mindlessly bash them to fit in with the crowd or discuss anything that I do not know for certain.. I have been silently observing this forum for some time and some of the accusations I don't believe or know to be exaggerated, but I do believe most of the peoples experiences that have been posted.

    I have now been training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since May and it has opened up a whole new world to me. I take my training very seriously because its a passion of mine, and I'm never looking back.
  10. BaguaMonk is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    301

    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 6:40pm


     Style: Alien Cosmic Chi Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ive seen schools like this where I used to live (dallas), and it's really sad. I was once in one, I believed it for like a short period of time, bu then against I was a teenager. As soon as I realized wtf was up I ran for the hills.

    Martial arts are one of the easiest way to start cults, you fool people into believing you have some ancient esoteric secret knowledge and people just love that stuff.

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