Fang Shen Do: Tales From the Inner Circle
Fang Shen Do: Tales From the Inner Circle
Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone who has posted about their past experiences with Fang Shen Do (aka Patenaude's Wing Chun Do) – they were a great read, and I can corroborate much of the allegations made against the “art” and it's founder. This forum is without question the best forum on exposing what Fang Shen Do is really all about... It should have come out years before, but nevertheless, the truth is finally starting to be told.
I would like to add my two cents to it – the following is some of my own darker personal experiences with the style and it's founder, Jacques Patenaude. I will not accuse the man of anything outright, but I will recount some of the more controversial experiences I had with the man and “his cult” over the years... I will let the reader draw his or her own conclusions.
I also hope that with me coming forward and telling my anecdotes, others who have had similar experiences with the man will also come forward with their own stories... I feel only the surface of what Fang Shen Do is all about has been scratched, and there's a lot more that needs telling.
Having said the above, due to the explosive nature of what I'm going to say, I wish to protect my identity. A word to the wise: Patenaude and his cult of core followers are dangerous vindictive people – his organization is a cult – in every sense of the word. For your own safety, you must consider messing with these people akin to messing with a hardcore motorcycle gang, or mafia-like thugs. I cannot stress this enough: Patenaude has followers that I believe, would blindly kill for him if asked.
I am not the only person who has said this – many have said it before me.
My personal background: I studied what is now called “Fang Shen Do”, in the early 80s for roughly 8 years. I have studied other martial arts as a whole for over 25 years now, including Muay Thai and MMA.
My desire to protect myself via anonymity (I do not wish to have his cult stalking me) will make for somewhat of a credibility issue. I have decided that the best thing I can do is describe in great detail the inner workings of his school during that time period. Anyone who “was there” will know what I'm talking about, and they will instantly know that I talk as an insider – someone who was there.... There is such a thing as Details that only an insider would know, and the first part of this post will simply be a short expose on how things worked there. The second part will be a few of my more explosive anecdotes.
One might ask why I'm doing this ? Well, truth be told, I got out of that place many years ago, and I really don't care either way what they do or don't do anymore – HOWEVER, I feel I have a responsibility to WARN people of some of the things that I went through – especially if you're a PARENT thinking about sending your child to one of his academies. You start thinking about that stuff once you have your own kids.
I also hope that in posting this, other ex, or current students will have to courage to come forward and perhaps post their own experiences as I have, to corroborate, and shed more light, on what I'm going to say. Again, I will not accuse anyone of anything – I will simply recount facts as best as I can recall them, and let the reader decide. I cannot have that much credibility standing on my own, so ultimately, all of this will be taken with a grain of salt; but if more people come forward with similar stories, ultimately the weight of the evidence will be compelling on it's own.
Again, you, The Reader, can decide for yourself.
My Fang Shen Do Tale:
I joined the original “Wing Chun Do” school in the early 80s. It was the original school located on Catherine Street in Ottawa – in the BASEMENT of this warehouse. Over time, the school has moved to Isabella street, then back to the original building (but upstairs). It has moved around since it first started in the late 70s, but it has always stayed in the same geographic area.
Like I said, the original school was in the basement of an old industrial building. The entrance was on the East Side, and was basically two big metal doors that led to a staircase that went to the basement. The school itself was relatively small – it was comprised of a main floor to the left, and single change room UNDER the stairs to the right, and of course Patenaude had his closed door office straight ahead against the wall. The right side as you entered also had a row of benches and chairs for outsiders to watch classes, however things went “closed door” whenever there was sparring or advanced classes.
The front of the training area had mirrors, the left wall had a large bamboo curtain with a Wing Chun Do logo on it – which had been painted by “an alcoholic Indian who took forever” according to Patenaude. The front right part of the training area had the biggest heavybag I have ever seen – it was a gigantic bag – triple sized at least, and it must have weighed over 350lbs. Anyone who went there in those days would remember it. The floor was all hard linoleum surface – rolling around on that floor was like concrete, and it toughened you up, or broke you.
There was a hard as rocks regular punching bag in the back of the training area, along with a massive assortment of training gear (kicking shields, focus mitts, traditional, and spring-arm wooded dummies, along with more exotic stuff like Jeet Kune Do style reflex timers (which was bleeding edge electronics in the late 70s/early 80s). There was also tonnes of smaller training gear suitable for what we called Station Training (circuit training done at the end of classes, done to music with 1 minute periods of work with 10 seconds of rest). I can't tell you how many “Tiger Pushups” I did to the old Rocky Theme.
For uniforms, we wore traditional black Kung Fu pants, with oldschool white sole Kung Fu slippers. For a Top, we wore “Wing Chun Do” t-shirts (three kinds: first was white with small WCD logo over the heart, with black piping on the neck and sleeves, second was the same but with a large WCD logo on the back, and the third was a blue shirt like the second.
For belts, it was roughly like this:
No belt (approx 3-6 months)
White Sash: (approx 2 years)
Blue Sash : (approx 1-2 years)
Green Sash: (3-5 years)
Brown Sash (final sash)
Patenaude was the only Black Sash. At the time, he claimed James W. Demile awarded it to him, and that he did not have the authority to give Black Sashes (he only gave up to Brown). Anyone wishing to get a black had to move to Seattle and train with DeMile. Patenaude never spoke much of DeMile, and questions were NEVER encouraged about anything.
In reality, I later found out that Patenaude had no credentials with the guy other than being allowed to “teach the bare basics”. Demile claims he only attended one seminar and was around him only for a couple of weeks.
Patenaude was never authorized to teach Wing Chun Do – what he was allowed to do was teach the basics in his OWN existing Martial Art. Sorta like how a Karate Instructor could teach you “Jeet Kune Do Concepts” without raising too many eyebrows.
Patenaude did his thing for years, figuring he was 2000 miles away in another country – in the old days all there was, was Black Belt magazine and Inside Kung Fu, and they sure as hell weren't going to print stories about a pissing contest between two MA instructors. The advent of the Internet (circa 1994) changed this – this is about the time Patenaude changed the art's name to Fang Shen Do – it was done to avoid embarrassment. Patenaude used the Wing Chun Do banner in the old days because of the Bruce Lee connotation (Bruce Lee was GOD in the late 70s and early 80s) – Patenaude based his entire early career as “A Bruce Lee Student” - even the big sign outside in those years was a giant Bruce Lee sign(!). Everyone who walked in there thought they were at the “Bruce Lee School” - that was “the hook” back then.
Despite having spent only a very limited amount of time with DeMile, Patenaude was thinking ahead – he took as many pictures as possible, and avidly volunteered to be photographed in the early versions of some of Demile's books. He also had made himself FORGED instructor certificates which he used to put on the walls for all to see – he eventually took those down once his reputation was established.
Nowadays, all he has for backing up his WCD claims is old pictures of he and DeMile together. He's always quick to show these, but you never get a straight explanation out of him.
Getting back to the Belt Ranks:
There also was what could be called a Secret Group – the Inner Circle. This was comprised of select students from the Green and Brown ranks. Inner Circle members were the toughest of the tough, and the craziest of the crazy. Above all, they had FANATICAL loyalty to Patenaude, whom they revered almost like a God. Unlike most people, I did eventually reach the entrance of the inner circle, but I quit the system when I saw how insane it was.
I could go on describing more finer details of the place and the training we did in those days, but there's no point for now. I believe the above statements will prove that I was there and I knew the place intimately – which was the point. Only someone “who was there in those years” would know the above details.
When I started WCD in the early 80s, I was but a teenager – I stayed until I reached adulthood. Patenaude at the time was not the guy he is today (25 odd years later). He was a young man – only 26 or 27 years old – he was in his prime. Many students today talk of what a “dangerous man” he must have been in his youth – I know exactly what he was like because I was there – in short, he was a very dangerous man – not from his size or strength (+/- 5'8”, 130lbs), and not because of his fighting technique. The man was Dangerous because how INSANE and CRAZY he was... and because of the power and influence he wielded over others... Others who were just as crazy as he was.
A number of years after I left, there was the infamous Branch Davidian Cult episode in the early 90s – I read very avidly about David Koresh (aka Vernon Wayne Howell )because he reminded me so much of Jacques Patenaude in those days. If I was to compare him with someone famous, that would be who I'd pick.
On the atmosphere there – it could best be described as always walking on eggshells. Patenaude was an incredibly intense personality – he suffered from what's commonly called Little Man Syndrome. He had an extremely explosive temper that could be set off for no reason. He was much like a proverbial Red-Nosed Pit Bull in temperament – you were always on your toes when he was around you.
Above all, he ruled with an iron fist through fear and intimidation. He's the biggest control freak I ever met – above all else, he craved to control everyone around him, and he wanted to be worshiped as the supreme leader. The whole scene was beyond fucked up.
In those days, he taught all the classes – there were no franchise schools, no assistant instructors, no nothing... Just him and his wife (who ran the business side more than anything else, although she was very competent at the Sticky Hands drill). Two of his boys were sometimes present – both are instructors in the system today, but back then they were only about 5 and 7 years old. To their credit, they both often trained alongside us – and they managed to keep up for the most part. I remember feeling very sorry for those kids – growing up having to constantly put up with a maniac like Patenaude.
Talking was not permitted. Asking questions was not permitted. Experimenting was not permitted – all you did was exactly what Patenaude said – and God Help You if you were a little less than perfect on anything. If you didn't give 110% full effort whenever he looked at you, you were in BIG trouble.
You could get in serious trouble for anything – I saw Patenaude ball out people numerous times because they were “looking at themselves too much in the mirror”, or had some kind of smirk going. He wasn't above smacking people around either, but usually it was a hard slap on the back or arm.
I only know of him hurting one guy seriously – this one guy sassed him off somehow, and Patenaude lost his cool and kneed him in the groin repeatedly. The guy ended up having a testicle surgically removed, and he sued – but Patenaude got off because nobody in the room would testify against him.
Patenaude bragged about beating the rap for years - he was proud of his Disciples not ratting him out.
The training was very hard and not friendly towards people who couldn't cut it.
The weak stayed away to begin with – all you had to do was feel the vibe of the place – within minutes, the average curious visitor would be intimidated out of there. Among those who were tough enough to try it out for real, anything less but the strongest soon dropped out – usually by the third month.
Rates wise, I seem to remember it being $35 a month, but you had to pay for belt testing fees ($30 to $50 I believe), but there were only a few “belts” in the system with much time between each one. You also had to buy your “uniform” and sparring gear off them (prices were roughly double what you'd pay on the street). I can't say the fees were unreasonable at all – and there were no “black belt clubs” or “seminars”, “getaways”, “retreats” or “firewalks” whatsoever. All that crap came years later when Wing Chun Do was Franchised and rebranded as “Fang Shen Do”.
Those who made White Sash were worthy prospects. Those who made Blue were worthy fighters – they weren't just tenacious people who toughed it out – they were fighters. Patenaude had no problem failing the weak. From Blue onwards, it was the toughest of the tough, and the craziest of the crazies – above all, fanatical loyalty to Patenaude was the rule.
From Blue onwards the sparring was frequent – done with cheap foam dip karate “safe-T-kick” type gear popular in the early 80s – it was designed for point fighting – not full contact fighting, which we did. The half glove we wore weighted only 3-4oz – little more than bag gloves, and crappy ones at that. The contact was full bore and absolutely ferocious. It's no wonder that sparring sessions were “closed door”. You always knew it was gonna be a long night when Patenaude hushed out visitors and the big metal doors locked. There were knockouts, cuts and even a few broken bones. When you're young (and stupid), you bounce right back for more. I knocked out a lot of guys – it was kill or be killed. Above all, we were instructed not to talk about what happened behind closed doors.
The system itself wasn't very sound technically. It could best be described as very sloppy brawling Wing Chun. There wasn't much to the system – oh, on paper it would work against other standup traditional martial arts, but it would crumble against anything MMA related. I went on to discard literally everything I learned in those years for more effective techniques, but I will say this – that atmosphere toughened you up mentally and physically like nothing else I've ever done. I will give it credit for that. It made you mentally tough – able to withstand just about anything. Patenaude's kids today are tough as nails – you would be too if you had to grow up with a prick like him.
I could go on an on, but I'll summarize the big picture. Patenaude was all about SUPREME control of the individual, and his whole process was to weed out those who weren't 100% loyal to him – he wanted people who didn't think for themselves – people who would give themselves up 100% to him.
In the years I was there, you could see it starting – it was a cult in it's infancy. Patenaude today is still doing it, however it's franchised and watered down a lot – it's nowhere near as tough as it used to be, but the system of weeding out people is still there... It's more mental than physical now. Above all it's bigger and scarier.
The inner Circle is still there, the crazy followers are all there, and unlike the old days, Patenaude is using his total control over his students for financial gain – listening to stories today about the atrocious rates and over the top nickel-and-dimeing of students is Patenaude's Ultimate Triumph – reducing his students into “disciples”, who hand over all their money to him. Not only does he want their money – he wants to DOMINATE and HUMILIATE them.
Compared to the old days, he's much more a recluse today – and his world has become layer after layer of ascendancy to the inner circle. It's not just a close door school anymore – it's turned into a FRANCHISE of closed door schools, with him ruling his empire from a compound in the countryside.
One could compare it to the “bunker of the apocalypse” that so many cult leaders gravitate to. He has his inner circle now doing what he did in the old days, and he associates with only the most fanatical of his followers. The cult is practically self running, and he's cashing in bigtime.
A word to the wise: For those of you who practice modern martial arts or MMA & the like – yes, you have superior techniques out the yin-yang – but remember, you are not dealing with individual fighters – you are dealing with a cult group – full of fanatical crazy nuts. My advice is to avoid them like you would the Rock Machine or the Hell's Angels.
I don't think any of the above is a surprise to this forum – much of this was said either directly, or alluded to in passing in previous posts.
I'd now like to recount a few terrible incidents I had with the man – I was being accepted into the inner circle at the time, and ultimately, the episodes below led me to leave that world.
One fine day we were training with the group – we were in pairs of two, doing what was called Phon Sao drills (could be described as Two Step Sparring as done in more traditional martial arts). Anyways, Patenaude slipped into his office for one reason or another, and this old street person came down the stairs and let himself in. He was clearly inebriated to the gills with cheap booze – he was basically a full on run-of-the-mill rummy/whino. In short he was a confused drunk old man – not a threat to anyone, just an annoyance. The bum started talking to the guys nearest to the door, and I couldn't quite understand what was being said – the bum looked confused and was asking questions.
Out of NOWHERE, out came Patenaude – pushed the two students aside and he EXPLODED on the bum – he basically “closed” on him in Wing Chun parlance – devastating this hapless guy with a good dozen vertical punches – the guy was basically blown away, and then Patenaude grabbed him by the hair and dragged him UP the metal stairs, where he took him in the alley and tossed him in the garbage cans. It was a ferocious unprovoked beating against basically a drunk defenseless old man. It was shocking to witness, and it really showed me graphically the type of guy Patenaude was. As for the room full of students ? Everyone just nervously ignored what was happening, and we kept doing our drills.
Pre 1993 (UFC1), very few people understood grappling. Those who did focus on it (apart from Judo), focused on standing grappling. Wing Chun Do was no exception, and they had a variety of standing grappling techniques and counters. One of the classic ones was the Wing Chun Do counter to a “standard” full nelson.
This was about the time that Patenaude started taking interest in me (more on that later), and he'd often use me as his partner to demonstrate techniques to the rest of the group.
One time, he asked me to put him in a full nelson – I did, but not a hard one, because like I said, one was always on eggshells around him. Well, he flipped out and SCOLDED me for not putting on a “Good Solid” Full Nelson on him – I got the picture, and I clamped on my best Full Nelson.
One thing about the WCD counter to the standing Full Nelson - it ASSUMED you interlaced your fingers, which is the WRONG way to do it. The standard defense was to reach back and grab one of the interlaced fingers and open the hold with a finger lock/break. That day I put on a proper full nelson, as taught by Gene Lebell – I did a strong full nelson with a wrist grab grip (which is unbreakable) and I lifted him up on his tip toes. I clamped it on strong and waited for a counter, but it never came – he struggled like a madman, and I realized, to my astonishment, and terror, that I had him – and there was NOTHING he could do to get out of it. I outsized him by a very large margin, and it was clear I was a much stronger kid than he was a man – I could have literally snapped his neck right there and he would not been able to stop me.
The problem, however, was that i had this MADMAN in a death grip, in front of his students – if I just let him go, he'd go nuts on me for embarrassing him – on the flip side, I couldn't snap his neck and kill the guy, and I couldn't clamp it on until he gave up – I had a very serious problem on my hands.
I'll never forget looking at all the students in front of us... Every single one of them had a look of UTTER TERROR in their eyes. I had a problem – I had the Tiger by the Tail, and I had to let him go.
I figured the best thing to do was release, and violently throw myself to the side – to make it look like he somehow broke the hold and threw me – I did, and on the way down I uttered “I can't hold him too strong!!!!”. It was enough to make him save face, and he walked away all smiles, puffing out his shoulders. That episode made me realize that even as little more than a big teenager, I could kick this guy's ass no problem – I realized right then and there that everything said about the guy, his whole personality cult, and to a lesser extend his style – was all a bunch of bullshit. He was a madman, and they were his fanatical followers – that's all it was. I learned A LOT about Martial Arts schools that day.
The reason why nobody is allowed to ask questions or experiment, is because Patenaude is 99% self taught – he has no depth or understanding of proper martial arts. It's all a scam.
I contend that his senior instructors today KNOW A LOT MORE than he ever has.
As mentioned above, Around this time Patenaude started taking what I would call a frightening interest in me personally. He always got me to demonstrate with him – he always wanted to physically do things with me – at the time I thought I was one of his prized students, but now that I'm a lot older and wiser (some 25+ years later), I suspect that something more sinister was going on. I was also being billed as one of his premier fighters - a young rising star.
Lets face it – I was a better than average looking big strong wholesome kid, all but about 17 years old, and of all the people, Pantenaude seemed pre-occupied with me in an unhealthy way. Maybe it started with the Full Nelson episode – I don't know.
On the day that I received my Green Sash, Patenaude asked me to stay a after class, and asked me to come by his office “in 10 minutes”. I did – since the door was cracked open, I slowly peered in and saw the unthinkable – Patenaude was looking like he was doing a quick line of cocaine. He saw me through the crack and quickly righted himself – to this day, I'm not 100% sure what I saw, but I have my suspicions.
Regardless, he asked me to have a seat, and he produced a big bottle of Jack Daniels from his desk. He congratulated me on passing the test (which was very tough at the time), and proceeded to pour himself a shot – he then did something that shocked me – he produced another shot glass and poured me a drink. Feeling obliged, I slugged it back and gagged like any (very much underage) kid would – which caused him to laugh maniacally. He then went on to tell me that my future was bright in the school, and that he had his "eye on me”. The latter chilled me to the bone – it was very weird how he said it, and how he was acting – almost like he was trying to seduce me. At the time, I felt incredibly uncomfortable, and every instinct I had was to run out of there – I quickly got up, bowed and made a quick break – he started pouring me another shot and asked me to stay awhile longer – I don't remember what I said but I got out of there as fast as I could.
25+ years later, looking back, I have to ask myself some questions. What the hell was a grown man doing, pulling a 16 or 17 year old BOY in his office, for a private drink ? The way he acted, and the way it all went down was incredibly fucked up, and I don't think I had ever been so scared in my life.
If there had not of been other occasions like this, I could have overlooked it... Ultimately, again, I can't know for sure what was going through his mind or what his motives were, so I'll just lay out the facts and let the reader decide for himself.
I got drunk around him many other times, but only for special occasions like Christmas parties and the like – I always made sure to lose myself in the group. Sad part is I never drank until he got me into it. Pretty damn pathetic that a grown man, in a position of trust and power, would turn an underaged kid on to alcohol. Wing Chun Do was all about drinking hard and bar fighting – all the self defense situations revolved around bar fights – it was never about facing a would be mugger with a knife – it was always about punch-outs in the barroom.
As I made my way to Brown Sash, more and more, I was indoctrinated into the inner circle – the attention from Patenaude continued, and it grew extremely tiresome – I wished he'd just leave me alone, I wished I could just be an anonymous student, indistinguishable from the next, but things just got weirder and crazier as time went on.
One fine day, I was one of the last people out of the class. They used to have this little fridge that had fruit juice for .50 cents (on the honor system). I was the last guy out, but before leaving I got myself a drink – I suddenly found myself alone, and Patenaude was behind me. After some trivial chit-chat, Patenaude just went into story telling mode, and he told me a story that chilled me to the core.
He told me about how one time this guy off the street came in on a Saturday, and Patenaude was there alone. Said street guy said he was interested in taking Kung Fu classes – that his life was in shambles, and he had just gotten out of jail – the typical sob story about a guy wanting to rebuild his life after screwing up & coming of age. Patenaude then said he went to the office to get some handout forms, and the phone rang – he got distracted from the call and basically forgot about the guy for 15 minutes. He then remembered there was someone out there waiting for him, so he cut the call short and went back out to the training floor.
At this point, Patenaude got weird on me – like all I can say was he got incredibly creepy...
According to him, the new prospect had dropped his pants and had his penis out, and was jerking off on the wooden dummy, shooting all over it. He then paused and studied my reaction intently, he then, I believe, focused on my crotch. A long silence ensued.
I found myself alone, and terrified with Patenaude acting completely weird and creepy. After a long pause, I then figured I had to respond, so I said “What did you do ?” He answered, “Oh, I let the guy leave himself out”. It was like as if what happened after was irrelevant – I missed the point obviously.
He then laughed, and I walked out of there backwards, bowing, basically going for the door as fast as I could without looking like I was freaking out.
Again, now that I'm a lot older and wiser (25+ years later), I look back and think – that story must have been bullshit. Even if it wasn't, WHY would a GROWN MAN tell his student about that episode – why would you tell anyone at all ???
If it was me and that happened in my school today, I'd be MORTIFIED, and would never want any of the students knowing about it. If I told anyone about it, it sure as hell wouldn't be some MINOR kid when he was alone in there – I mean, it was completely fucked up.
I now seriously suspect that he was just telling me that bullshit story to gauge my reaction – possibly sizing me up for something... Again, I'll let the reader draw his own conclusions.
There were a few other nasty episodes with him, but I wont get into them. None are as extreme as what I've already mentioned, and the more I say, the more it gets specific, the more it could identify me, and the more likely one of his lackies would track me down and mess with me.
I will say this – when you join the inner circle, at least back then, part of the rite of passage was to go to a bar in Gatineau “with the boys”, and Patenaude (all 5 foot-fuckall of him) would pick a fight with some toughguy – and you were expected to cut in and finish it. Everyone on the inside had to do it.
As I got older I got wiser, and I stopped ignoring all the insanity – when it all started, all I wanted was to take Kung Fu lessons from “just another school” - what it turned into was a crazy cult – and the more years you put into it, the harder and crazier it was to get out of it.
I finally left when I had enough – it was not pretty – but I got through it, and eventually I was left alone.
I had friends who continued, one of which was an inner circle guy for years (I won't name him as he's still involved). He can vouch for the infamous Bucket of Dogshit story – as the years went on, Patenaude started doing out-of-school retreats to a farm he had out in Cassleman – it started off small, but over the years it's gotten insane. Nowadays, it's a full on compound where they do Marine Boot Camp style training, and the top students keep getting put through ordeals to prove their loyalty.
Getting top prospects to put their heads in a bucket of **** is just another one of these ordeals – and so is giving the guy 1000s and 1000s of dollars – the more you suffer, the more you pay, the more you feel like what you are doing has value, and that you have a lot invested in it.
The harder it gets, the longer you're in, the more you suffer, the more it makes it harder to walk away - because you've invested so much into it.
Things like the bucket of **** also tests your resolve to “put up” with something unspeakable and keep your mouth shut. It also no doubt gratifies Patenaude and humiliates/dominates the student. It keeps going and going, and the more you go farther, the worse it gets. It's all about total control and total power, and who knows what else he's subjected his students to. Do things cross the line totally ? Does it degenerate to sexual domination ? Do all the other tests lead to this ?
Are the progressively worse tests a way of finding out who will really put up with _anything_ ? A way of selecting a core group of people who will act like virtual slaves to the cult ?
I have serious concerns about it.
I know a few inner circle guys who went deep in the organization, and left. They both say the man is completely evil and there's nothing he won't do – they also won't talk details – it's clear to see they're deeply ashamed of their past, and they're trying to forget it.
The best prototypical inner circle students are all the same – very young men – barely out of their teens in top physical shape. Almost all of them have serious emotional issues and come from broken homes – many were violently or sexually abused – these are the type of people who fit into that crazy world, and get strung along – because they're vulnerable and receptive to being completely dominated.
Am I accusing Patenaude of something more ? Something completely disturbing and sinister ? Do we have a “Catholic Schoolboy Abuse Scenario” in the works ? No, I'm not accusing him of anything. I'm simply recounting my personal experiences, and speculating a little.
I will ultimately let the reader decide for himself.
I hope that former students read this post – and if any of you out there have an absolutely insane WCD/FSD story, I hope this inspires you to come forward and post your experiences.
Whoa. Quite the story and does fall in line with the general themes we've seen before (except for the sexual connotations seem new). Though, it seems those are very specific stories while trying to remain anonymous... (ole Jackie-boy might be able to place you from those)
That is one incredible post !!!
I can't believe how fucking crazy those guys are!!!!!!!!!
Woah indeed. Thanks for posting. Hopefully others will follow your lead.
This in particular is exactly what I felt. Many of the really top, invested, kool-aid drinking students were exactly like this. I'm not surprised sex would be involved. Most cults go down that path sooner or later.
Originally Posted by ghyslain
I like the "tiger-by-the-tail" story. I can just imagine the looks on the faces of the students. You should have said it was his chi that was too strong, though.
I wonder if this post will draw a reaction.
Last edited by myrmecophilous; 6/14/2007 9:26pm at .
good read bro.
i never knew much about sJP, his training system and such. i always wondered about the early WCD/FSD years... it's good to hear from personal experience.
the FSD as i know, differs VERY MUCH from what you describe (as far as my experience goes). they are very very concerned about membership retention.
even the master's club is solely dependant on the fees.
oh, and i read awhile back about silat and patenaude... at one point, apprently sJP claimed to teach penkat silat but he was disowned? can you detail on this?
Great read. We really appreciate it.
It would be great if some of the other Inner Circle people would come forward to post.
Fantastic post. Thank you very much for detailing out your experience so clearly and lucidly. Chilling to think about what people get away with, and what they are willing to do to their fellow man.
damn, and I thought my old kung fu school was cultish, yours is just unreal
Hi Ghyslain. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. These personal stories (by yourself and others)have been by far the most powerful indictment of the FSD organization.
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