Sun Mountain Martial Arts Wingtsun

**brocklee** · Posted On: 6/14/2007 11:43am

Simply in it for the money. Of the Leung Ting lineage, this school is based off car salesman mentality. Everything is contractual and the structure of the lessons are aimed towards keeping the student (more like customer) in training for the greatest period of time. Zero martial ethics and the school lacks principle and doesn't teach the basic fundimentals of energy transfer.

The sifu attempted to drill the concept that their kungfu is better then all and I would have to disagree. There's much to be said about this school and it's sifu but I won't go into the nitty gritty. That, I will leave up to someone else. I would stay away from this school if I had the option to again. Even though I no longer attend classes I am obligated to live up to the contract. No deals from the sifu also. Needs to be paid in full!

**geezer** · Posted On: 6/16/2007 9:02pm

If this school is all about money, then how come the sifu is perpetually broke? The real problem is with their Grandmaster, Leung Ting and his micro-mismanagement. Back in the 70's he started schools in Germany (EWTO) which he did not rigidly control. They developed a pretty good training system, but Grandmaster Leung didn't get much of the money. When he came to the US around 1980 he decided to teach with an eye-dropper and control everything so all the dough would flow to him. Of all his original American teachers, only the Sifu of Sun Mountain has coontinued to put up with getting shafted. It's too bad because when applied intelligently, with some good groundfighting thrown in, Wing Tsun is a hell of a system. As it is taught now--well it's the reason I quit after well more than a decade of experience!

**brocklee** · Posted On: 6/19/2007 9:49pm

Originally Posted by geezer

If this school is all about money, then how come the sifu is perpetually broke? The real problem is with their Grandmaster, Leung Ting and his micro-mismanagement. Back in the 70's he started schools in Germany (EWTO) which he did not rigidly control. They developed a pretty good training system, but Grandmaster Leung didn't get much of the money. When he came to the US around 1980 he decided to teach with an eye-dropper and control everything so all the dough would flow to him. Of all his original American teachers, only the Sifu of Sun Mountain has coontinued to put up with getting shafted. It's too bad because when applied intelligently, with some good groundfighting thrown in, Wing Tsun is a hell of a system. As it is taught now--well it's the reason I quit after well more than a decade of experience!

COnfuSious think, "If a sifu is broke, he should probably find a better paying job."

Honestly, I can't say anything about Leung Ting because I have never met him myself. I can say that I've been told he's the Bill Gates of Wing Chun but I don't know how much that's true. That could be taken as a compliment, in a way. I know others that frown upon it.

It's not Leung Ting that is charging me $1100 for 5 lessons.

**geezer** · Posted On: 6/22/2007 7:42pm

$1100 for five lessons? Holy ****! That's $220 a lesson -- More than I paid to train personally with Grandmaster Leung Ting gack in the 1980's! Sounds like you got really screwed. I will try and get ahold of your "sifu" and see if he's doing this to a lot of people. I haven't talked to him in a few years, but we used to be friends and trainig partners. Martial arts should NOT be based on contracts. If a student wants to quit, I say let him go and wish him well. But then again, I never tried to make a full time trliving off teaching...and why I ended up separating from the WT organization. Find a way to get out of that contract and good luck to you, Celery.

**brocklee** · Posted On: 6/24/2007 11:54am

It would be great if you could some how make him realize that it would be more ethical to close the contract. I figured the $120 down payment would just be lost or maybe pay like 2 months in advance to close the agreement but apparently that's not the case. It's funny because I just got the entire outfit on our last meeting.

**Sensei of Beer** · Posted On: 9/10/2007 1:47am

I think he means that the $1100 is for his participation in the years contract... He signed the contract, backed out only taking five lessons, but has to pay for they whole year. Lesson= always beware of contracts!
If you are under contract, the best way to get out is to get thrown out of the school. If the teacher asks you to leave, then you are under no obligation to pay.
If you are indeed still paying, go back there, demand to be taught, and be really confrontational with him and (more importantly) his students. If you scare the students, then the instructor will ask you to leave (doesnt want to lose $) = contract broken. Good luck!