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  1. kwoww is offline
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    poser

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    Jan 2007
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    Lower Hudson Valley / Rochester
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 5:29pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL.

    Films ≠ Martial Arts

    Basically you've admitted to being a bystander who thinks he knows everything, as though he were in on the action. Sorta like the guys who say that MMA fighters are pussies. To be honest, there is no way I'll ever read that whole thing, or even half of it. But from what I've seen of it, you need to get out and train. Before you develop a philosophy about martial arts, you should probably practice them first.
  2. SpringHeeledJack is offline
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    Diabolical Physiognomy

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    Clapham Common
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 5:41pm


     Style: Boxing; Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    HOLY ****!!! STROM LIVES!!!THE DIXIECRATS ARE ON THE MOVE!!!


    Now lovely Lucifer, in hell so stark
    King, and lord of sin and pride
    With some mist his wits make dark.
    He send thee grace to be thy guide


    HE LOOKS LIKE A TINY BEAR MIXED WITH A CAT, AND THAT IS THE MEANEST ANIMAL MIXTURE EVER, BEAR FOR FUCKING STRENGTH, AND CAT FOR FUCKING MEAN!!! ************.

  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 6:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TkdTAOJkd
    The following is a culmination of my thoughts on Martial Art, inspired by the ideals of Bruce Lee's teachings on Jeet Kun Do/The Way of the Intercepting Fist( The style of no style) and 17 years of listening to great TKD/BJJ/MA teachings - these are the ideals of MA that I wish to incorporate into my films, this is my own personal Tao of Martial Art. These are only ideals and philosophies - meant to be thought about with a very 'outside the box' mindset and would only be useful knowledge if thought of in this manner.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    An Analogy is essential to opening the mind up for total awareness:

    One should think about the Tao of Martial Art as if it is the tree of life, carrying you inside; your branches will grow in whatever direction you push them - search for the light.

    Some will chose poorly and grow very little; while others will attempt to reach the sun. It is not wise to allow yourself to become dwarfed in comparison to those who have chosen well. Avoid becomming the fool.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The first thing to remember in a day such as this can be paraphrased from Mr. Lee himself:

    'Any fool can pull a trigger, but, in certain cases and certain situations, only a fool would avoid using a trigger.'

    Victory is only garunteed when you have no limits, when you are willing to do whatever it takes, no matter the cost. One must be willing to adapt to whatever style they are confronting, even if that is the art of the firearm.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ultimate compassion for all life is key to a full understanding of Martial Art. One should only take life when forced in self defense. There are very few exceptions.

    - Freedom of Self is no self.
    - Freedom of mind is no mind.
    - First, you must conqur self to acheive the freedom of no mind.
    - To conqur self, or fight without attachment to self, one must first fully accept his defeat.
    - Fuel your strength and control with what was once your fear of self.
    - Keep your mind empty, observe your body and your opponent as if from the third person, far behind you and above.
    - Allow your body to move reactively, do not tell it or force it to; allow your instincts to control your motions and your mind to follow.
    - Have no fear of the end result, only fear of not trying.

    Why does the notion of self hinder your performance?
    - You are a human being, conscious of your actions, your feelings and emotions. When you let go of your worries and fully open the door to trusting your insticts, you will react much quicker and without telegraphic movement(making your attack obvious to your opponent before using it).

    Example: If I was to enter a real fight for my life(without elimating my conscious identity first), I would find myself worrying about shooting in for a takedown because my opponent would have the oppurtunity to knee me in the face, which could ultimately cause some random blood clot in my brain and ultimately forever change my life. I would find myself worrying about whether or not fighting was necessary, showing my opponent compassion, kicking him in the head at full blast, etc. The human mind naturally wonders about issues such as these, it's your conscience speaking. The trouble with allowing your conscience to speak to you during battle is that before you even realize that you are worrying about these things, your opponent will find the time to strike first and secure the advantage; When one worries about the outcome, one is reluctant to commit to any attack.

    - Letting go of self allows you to forget all of those things; to simply be in the moment and only concerned with that exact moment. This allows you to step outside of the box and actually see the fight from above your own shoulders; almost like watching the performance in your head as it progresses in real time.

    - This is one of the greatest/hardest acheivements any martial artist or human being can accomplish; I still find myself popping in and out of 'self' all of the time when I am not in full control of my emotions. Learn to beat yourself by controlling them.

    Something to remember.
    - Some fighters are just born without any of the worries described above; you had better be able to beat them at their own game or you will have NO chance. Learning to leave 'self' and the worries attached to 'self' behind is a must for any Martial Artist.

    - Complete physical and mental control comes from both relaxation and fluidity.
    - If one tenses during preparation for battle, one is allowing the ideal of self to dictate his actions and the ultimate outcome. DO NOT WORRY about landing any strike or attack - shut off all control over self and allow your body to react naturally.
    - Once you've weakened your opponent, allow the animal instinct inside to control your speed and seek out the kill.

    - There is much to be said about being the first to strike in a certainly dooming situation; don't be caught offguard, catch them and make your presence known - this will set your opponent into Fight-or-Flight, shutting down his clarity and opening a door to his aggression. Be prepared to react.
    - Do NOT become frustrated with time - if your opponent will not commit to attack, then he WILL NOT fight you. Someone has to be the pursuer and someone the pursued - allow him to think what he wants to think, then sting. You must have the patience to wait as long as it takes, allow him to open up your own window of oppurtunity for you.
    - You must have the preserverance to continue in battle even when your body tells you it can not.

    Wait for his attack and react.
    - Do not win, Do not lose, Do not anticipate the outcome.
    - Simply, prepare for battle, clear your mind, watch his motions, do not become overzealous in anticipation - react to his movement.

    Tips.
    - The first thing to observe in preparation for battle is your surroundings. Scan the area around you for all objects which could obstruct your path or be used either against or by you.
    - Do NOT dwell on anything at all, do not pay serious attention to anything, view this moment and the ones that follow from outside of your body.
    - If you must fight on a floor covered in shattered glass, barefoot, stand still and throw glass in your opponents eyes - wait for him to approach you.
    - Do NOT concern yourself with thoughts.
    - Use your surroundings to fight for you.
    - Do NOT concern yourself with your opponent - allow his 'SELF' and fear of 'SELF' to lose the fight for him - he WILL be preoccupied with the glass under his feat, as well as your motions/actions and he will attempt to formulate a plan of victory.
    - The reason that formulating a plan to victory is a vital mistake is because you will become preoccupied with following only that plan; you will miss out on all great oppurtunities that are given to you. Allow only your opponent's mind to wander around in this present moment - Keep your own clear, carefree and relaxed.

    - When you commit to battle, there can be no thoughts, even of battle. View your opponent(s), the surroundings, your own 5 limbs(head) and wait for battle to come to you.
    - Know that you have waited your entire life for this moment and be happy to finally reach it. Smile at your opponent, breathe.
    - DO NOT FEAR PAIN, LOSS, AGREESION or SELF. Your opponent is literally you(ATMAN) - BEAT YOUR SELF, that is the ultimate goal.

    ATMAN = Hindu word for universal self, ideal: we are all connected in the cycle of life, we have all experienced everything that everyone else has experienced - at a subconscious/instinctual level.

    KEYS TO VICTORY

    - Always fight dirty.

    The rule of Biting
    - Always make sure that your teeth touch eachother.

    The rule of Grappling
    - If you grab a foot, take it home with you.

    Issues with being bitten while applying a submission/break.
    - When someone is placed into a loose submission, even for a split second, their options of escape become limited. When someone is placed into a tight submission, their options of escape are scarce to impossible. So, what is one of your most effective options when your opponent fails to apply correctly and immediately?

    Bite whatever skin/bone is closest to your mouth.

    - One must realize that a true grappling expert will be as quick at tightly applying his attacks as you are at instinctively biting his limb - your window of escape can be as low as a single hundredth of a second in some cases. Biting is no garuntee, remember to remove the knee from over your face and get your head inside his legs, quickly shoot to your feet and STACK your opponent - press his head to the floor with the arm he is attacking.

    The following example is meant to be applied when you shoot a standard arm bar/break from the full mount position(sitting on top of the chest). The goal of the example is to apply the break in a manner that keeps you away from the danger of being bitten.

    - Chose which arm you wish to attack and grasp it tightly, shift your weight by placing your other arm on the bodies opposite side and spin your shoulders toward it's base as you swing your leg/hips tightly around his arm. Follow traditional leg placement having one knee at a tight 90 degree angle across his chest, place the heel under his opposite armpit; with your other leg, place your toes and the ball of your foot on the floor beside his neck with your heel firmly under his chin. As you control his arm and begin to press your hips up, keep the knees tight and drive your heel down and press into his throat.

    - This manuever is ONLY meant for real life application - never to be attempted against an opponent in a cage or in a random street fight; you will kill him unless he manages to escape your attack.

    - When training for this be very careful, use a dummy to attempt actual application. This slight change turns your simple arm break into a kill maneuver - breaking the wind-pipe as well as the arm; also, keeping the subject from biting a large hunk of skin off of your outer/under thighs.

    - This only has garunteed success when securing the arm-break from a full mount position; the floor beneath his head is used as the brace which keeps him from escaping. If he does not have the floor behind his head, he will be able to escape the break very easily by shifting his neck around the ball of your foot; in these cases, if you have chosen to apply the arm-break from your guard, place the inside of your knee over his neck and keep it tight - attempt to get the knee beneath his chin to keep his head controlled and mouth shut. Wrap your heels around his back but do not cross your legs, dig your heels into his skin. Only cross your legs when you are attempting a flying arm-break and do not have one heel/knee underneath his armpit.

    Tip for applying arm-bar/break.
    - Sit your butt behind the shoulder of the arm you are attacking. Place your legs over his chest and neck/chin and squeeze your heels towards your butt. Make sure his arm is pulled as far through your hips as possible, best placement is when the arm is fully controlled with your hips wrapped under/around the shoulder muscle. From this position you should appear as if you are sitting in a chair, keeping your thighs and chest at a 90 degree angle. Keep the thumb of your opponent pointed toward the ceiling and his pinkie finger toward the ground - as you sit back in your "chair" and press your hips toward the sky - pull his pinkie to the ground. Remember to breathe correctly as you apply.

    The rule of Striking
    - Strike the closest object that you can inflict damage on; Strike the most sensitive areas at the first chance available to you; AIM FOR THE GROIN anytime and everytime it becomes available to you.

    ALWAYS STRIKE SEVERAL INCHES THROUGH YOUR TARGET, NEVER AIM DIRECTLY AT THE POINT YOU WISH TO STRIKE, aim behind the point.

    - Condition your strikes to speed and accuracy; learn the correct placement for each strike.

    - What is the correct foot placement for striking with the ball of your foot?
    - Grab the bar (a bar placed on a wall) and raise your striking leg to the round kick position w/ the kick chambered and only knee pointing directly in front of your body. From this position your foot on the floor must be pointed at a 90 degree angle from the direction of the knee pointing directly in front. Your toes of the striking leg should be bent forward and toward the raised knee - pull them back as if you are standing on them. As your extend your heal forward and push it to a straight line with your knee, roll your standing foot from 90 degree to 180, the opposite direction of your strike. While rolling this foot, your striking foot will need to push forward from the heel and your toes and ball of your foot should begin to rotate more and more towards the floor as your leg extends. The final proper placement is with the leg locked straight out from the body, your standing foot looks the opposite direction(180 degrees), your eyes and head look forward towards the strike in view of your large toe pointed toward the ground at about a 40 - 45 degree angle. The toes are also pulled back toward your shin and your ankle is the highest point in the air. You will press this kick with your heel. Retract the foot to the original position with only knee forward, in correct form.

    - What portion of your instep is the correct area for striking?
    - Point your toes and foot straight to the floor, stretch your foot down so that it bows up at a 190 degree line. From your shin to the floor - your toes should be behind the shin. The instep is the 3 - 4 inchs of flat/boney space on top of your foot from directly above your ankle down to about 2 inches above the toe nuckles.

    - When is it more appropriate to strike with the instep over the ball of the foot?
    - When striking from a farther distance, it is especially useful for lower rib shots, mid-thigh and head kicks. A perfectly placed round kick to the head with the instep of your foot WILL incapacitate your opponent instantaneously.

    - When is it more appropriate to strike wtih the ball of the foot?
    - When striking from a shorter distance, almost within punching reach. You should plan to strike with either the ball of your foot(pressing the power with your heel) or with the Shin bone.

    Do not show compassion during battle, only after.
    - If you make this mistake, you will hinder your performance and the outcome.
    - If you are in a REAL fight for your life, show your opponent NO RESPECT - he will certainly kill you if you allow him the oppurtunity.

    - Wait, react to the objects(limbs) closest to you and force them away in pain(When he strikes, strike his striking limb).

    - Train to fight for your life, not to win a single fight, not to look good for anyone, not to get healthy, not to wear a belt of any color. Train to fight for your families protection - There is NO greater calling than this.

    - Know that all physical pain will fade - Mental stress can not be important at the time of battle. DO NOT FEAR ANYONE OR ANYTHING, they all break as easily as self control.
    - Make your opponent lose his own self control. Mock him if you must.
    - Stay strong with your control, your own self(personality) can not be allowed to be consciously present during battle. DO NOT ALLOW your mind to take control, it WILL trick you and you WILL fail. Trust your subconscious instincts.

    - When you enter battle, leave the person that you are at the door, along with your shoes(metaphor). You are a human being, easy to break - become something else temporarily - a Dragon, or creature of your choice.

    This is what "Enter the Dragon" stands for - another metaphor.

    - When in battle, become the Dragon - leave humanity at the door, along with your self and your shoes.


    This will continue once I've written more.

    ATMAN = Hindu word for universal self, ideal: we are all connected in the cycle of life, we have all experienced everything that everyone else has experienced - at a subconscious/instinctual level.




    A pure example.



    .
    .
    .
    Although MMA is quite literally a watered down version of Jeet Kun Do - the sport itself does manufacture many top level fighters/lethal athletes.

    Why do I refer to MMA as watered down Jeet Kun Do?
    - Because it is. Mixed Martial Arts - the title says it all. Any styles are welcome, at any time, although there is a price. One must follow the rules and adapt their natural abilites to match those of the sport. That is right, the sport - not to your opponent; he is adapting his style to match the sports as well. Since the beginning of the sport(which was originally much more free but still limited) the rules have increased 10 fold. No biting, no small joint manipulation(fingers, toes, nose, etc), no more hair pulling, no more head butting, no using of any object other than the limbs of your body, one opponent at a time, no elbows to the face and/or no kicks to the face while the opponent is downed - many MMA events do not allow neck cranks or submissions dealing with the neck... ETC. The onslaught of rules continues. There is a specific rule which I will not mention, but trust that this rule fully alters the reality of a fight and creates the truth of a sport.

    These rules are all very good things. We get to play witness to so many exciting and great fighting events and the athletes are rarely/if ever injured beyond repair.

    What is the problem with this then?
    When you train something for years or months and train only for that specific thing - your muscle memory relaxes as your mindset prepares for one specific event, you become ready. The trouble is that when you train to only fight in MMA your body will ultimately come to a cross roads in a real/fight for your life situation. Even though this mental crossing may only take a split second, taking the time to chose can cost your life.

    On one road you will easily travel with all of your tools and find yourself moving without even having to tell yourself - allowing complete instinctual control. On the other road you will anxiousley carry a toolbox containing all of the tools which you have sharpened and trained, although - there will be no other tools available to you. Both are very good in their own ways. If you take the first road, total subconscious control over your instincts can be achieved. If you take the second, you may spend an entire lifetime attempting to achieve this goal, although you may have very dangerous/obvious tools to call upon.

    How is this a problem?
    If everyone knows that you can easily generate nearly a thousand pounds of pressure with a hopping sidekick; no one will stand directly in front of you.

    Your best weapons will be obvious. If the opponent you are facing is wise and experienced, he may use them against you by staying one step ahead.

    The Solution:
    Train every muscle, every strike, every counter, every throw. Train with random overweight people who have no business doing so while you are simultaneously training with the best of the best somewhere else. Learn every style of opponent you possibly can - become the wise/experienced individual. Do no limit yourself. Limit your opponent.





    Once you've trained specifically to attack a single opponent in a certain way - you will naturally assume that mindset in any fighting situation(until you train it differently)... So the problem here is that you will find yourself shooting in for a takedown against some soccer player whose got the strongest knee strike in the country - you could get KO'd, at the least.

    Now, breathe a little... calm down - I am not saying that a typical person would have even a prayer of a chance against a professional/amateur fighter. I am however saying that when you train yourself for the mindset of professionally fighting - spending 6 weeks - 6 months training for one specific fight against one specific opponent - you will likely not find the fight of your life to be the same way. You may even find yourself struggleing to change up your gameplan, find something that works. This is the brick wall that you can run into when focusing on singular opponents for such a long period of time. You forget how easy it truely is to defeat anyone. You may find yourself attacking in straight lines because you are so pre-occupied with the danger that you are barely keeping yourself away from; what you don't realize is that you are causing your opponent no damage during these attacks, only tiring yourself and giving him time to understand the set patterns that you are continually showing.

    Do not train to beat Tito Ortiz alone, because Joe Schmo might kick you in the side of the cheek and cave your face in... Train to fight a killer. Train to fight for your life, to fight like a killer; always think ahead with the calmness of your mind - allow yourself to see your oppent without paying attention to him; allow your body to control itself, not your mind. A human beings natural instincts are his greatest weapons; he has survived for tens of thousands of years on his instincts alone and through climates unimaginable. One should never forget this, deep down - there are animal instincts waiting to get out.


    So, what exactly am I saying is the best way to train?

    Anyway - as long as you are continusouly training yourself mentally and physically. Training for MMA is a GREAT way - but be warned; fighting in a cage/ring should not be held in comparison to reality. There is no referee, there are no laws/limits/breaks - there ARE many objects available that can cause serious injury... When the time comes there is only an opponent(s) and yourself; I believe it could be a devastating mistake to allow your emotions, inhibitions, pride and/or continuous training to control the way in which you react to the reality occurring around you. Shut off your knowledge, prepare your body for battle at anytime, all of the time - you will not realize that battle is waiting for you around the next corner until you have crossed it's path. Be prepared.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Never attack in straight lines.

    Always move to the outside and then throw your combo's. Most trained fighters do not think like you do - they look directly at you. If you are in front of them, they expect the attack from directly in front. Move to the outside and throw your strikes from above or below.

    Move from side to side during attack; it is ok to rejoin the straight line for escape as long as you have moved in for it on an angle. If you move in on a straight line and remain on this straight line before escaping your opponent will have the time to pick and chose his shots - you've already shown him where your most vulnuerable spots are located and now you are waiting for him to strike them. Move during your attacks, standing still produces grim results.

    Counter balance your kicks. If you launch your rear/right leg round kick into his gut, heavily throw your right arm toward your right hip and then straight behind you as you do so - this will twist your hips further into the kick and provide a much more powerful/quick strike. I must mention that the motion should be started with your right arm; nearly instantaneously following with your kick. By moving your arm first you are giving your opponent something to focus on - he will believe you are going to strike with it and lean his jaw back to avoid the punch and raise his arms to prepare a block, leaving his lower ribs open for the shot.


    You may tire yourself out moving from side to side; you may reach the point of vommitting. Do not give up. Do not appear as if it bothers you. Vommitting on your opponent as you strike him is the most beneficial solution. Never beat yourself with your physical innabilities; beat your physical self with your mental strength.





    A great example of someone who adapts their style for a more beneficial outcome, even though he plays by the rules. Randy Couture is to MMA as Bruce Lee is to JKD.



    Today, most Martial Art are treated as sport because most practicioners study for reasons other than defending their lives.

    If one is continuously aware that they may limit their study by viewing it as a sport, they can avoid training any art as if it were a sport. Incorporate both what is considered good and bad technique - break the mold which is so securely formed around this "art." After you have mastered the mindset of that specific art - take only what is best from that art; sharpen that tool. Compile it with what is best from every other art and sharpen all of those tools... What you have left is a devastating, realistic and advanced method of MA - you essentially have someone along the lines of Randy Couture. This is MMA, taking the best of the best from each and using it together. Regardless of how strong you may feel about this style of many culminated styles, the human mind still sets its own limits. "I don't want to really break his arm, I am not that type of person...but, if I do not then this person may truely injure me... I hope that he tapps instead."

    JKD has no limits and set parameters, although during the creation process Mr. Lee did chose individual aspects of each of the Arts that he had mastered. Selecting the quickest, most powerful strikes/attacks and lacing them all together. By doing so, he ran the risk of limiting the art of JKD by giving it set moves, etc. JKD does not simply stop at this though. On top of this Mr. Lee was sure to include that the Art of JKD involves sometimes doing things that a traditional MA might not find to be so artistic. These non-artistic things can range from using a method of attack that is typically non-successful to using a firearm. He made sure that his students practiced for real life application; anything goes, everything goes.

    So the question to be answered:
    What if someone beats you with their hands and feet, but you pull out a gun and use it on them to secure a victory? Is this Jeet Kun Do?

    Yes and No. Yes because you are not limiting how you've obtained victory. More correctly however, NO, YOU ARE NOT. If you are not trained enough to secure victory with your hands and feet, then you do not understand the power of JKD and therefore will not represent it in your victory. JKD is a spiritual study of the arts, "The Way of the Intercepting Fist." If you can not pay tribute to the name itself, you have not truely performed the art. This being said, I must point out that Bruce Lee did NOT want to name Jeet Kun Do. He wanted to keep his style free; a style of no styles; no limitations; no names. He chose Jeet Kun Do because it most accurately describes the performance of the art, a similar thought process to studying the Wing Tzhung(Chung) art - blocks/strikes are combined; the goal being to beat your opponent with your hands and feet, where he should be the most worthy test.

    There is no JKD fighter alive or dead who could compete in Mixed Martial Arts/No Holds Barred fighting of today.

    The reason I say this: JKD has no limits. No one can bend the elasticity of JKD to fit inside that of MMA; it's like putting a square peg into a circular hole. If someone enters a professional/amateur fight that is sanctioned for health and sporting purposes, they leave 100% of their right/ability to use JKD behind them. Do not fight in MMA if you plan to prove that JKD is the best fo the best... In all likelihood - you will make JKD look bad because you are not doing it justice. If Mr. Lee was still alive today, he would have only entered an MMA competition if they agreed to fight by his rules - the terms of JKD; meaning that any fighter who stood against him today would have to put their life on the line against his; there would be no limitations that he would have to adhere to.

    All of this being said - Lee would never pull a gun on 6 opponents standing before him without weapons, he would only do so if he first could not defeat all six with his hands and feet.

    'Any fool can pull a trigger.'

    He spent years studying Kung-Fu along with many other arts, before developing his own Tao which lead to the creation of JKD; Lee lost just like you or I during those times, he was not a mythical fighting master or an iconic master of any art. What he learned he used to create Jeet Kun Do, 'never play by anyones rule, only your own, it could cost you the victory and possibly your life.'
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Read from the top, down. Thoughts from a these readings that have been addressed.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Joe Spiro (Chaparral High School) replied to your post
    38 minutes ago
    Hmmm a good treatise but... I disagree on certain points.

    Because a top level Mixed Martial Artist is so incredibly better at fighting than just your average Joe Schmo training for a specific fight (as long as only temporarily) wouldn't necessarily impede their ability to defend themselves.

    A truelly great JKD fighter could easily transition. Cutting out shots to the groin and hairpulling and stuff are just limits for the match not for life and if they are great they would already be in shape to compete. Anyways nutshots are harder to land than most think. Watch some old vale tudo.

    As long as someone trains lethal techniques in addition to MMA they should be just fine. Hahaha basically Kali + MMA= Awesome.

    Hmmm I kind of want to start a group similar to this because...no offense I think the name of the group is offputting to many MMA fighters who abhor anything chinese. I think a group for all fighters (who spar at least) would be cool something like... "Fighters of the World nite!"


    20 minutes ago
    My point was not that a MMA fighter could not easily transition, it was that there will be a time period, split second - several seconds, in which the fighter will have to mentally adjust his approach to the situation. During this mental block Joe Schmo will attempt to capitalize and could very well do so. Joe could actually be one of the best MA pracitioners in the world, you just don't know it because he choses to not participate in Mixed Martial Art competition. My only reason for the statement was to give MMA practioners who read this the boost they need to train slightly differently. When you apply an arm bar, you should always mentally think about breaking his neck with your heal in real application - that way, you will be prepared to apply it. Do not let yourself be caught offguard because you are not used to the idea of mortally or seriously wounding someone in a battle.

    Post #4Joe Spiro (Chaparral High School) replied to your post
    17 minutes ago
    Ahhh the implicit and explicit motives are different. Hmm this is a beautiful piece of work then.

    Post #5You replied to Joe's post
    14 minutes ago
    The point of my Tao is to not limit yourself to the laws of sport. If a submission is available, do not train to simply submit; train to break - at least mentally; physically with dummies. If a kill shot is available, do not train to do anything other than take the kill; a single moment of decision is a dangerous moment. In the very unlikely occurence of a real fight for your life situation, you should never be unprepared. Don't get caught offguard! That is the point.

    I have personally never found it hard to strike the groin, it seems to call to my feet. Never-the-less; your idea for a group is wonderful, perhaps you should start one.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Lee did not prefer to grapple over striking. Never-the-less, with his highly enlightened mind, he studied grappling. He did so because by not doing so, his weakness would be obvious to his opponents. Do not limit yourself, limit your opponent.


    A conversation I have had on the thoughts just above.

    Joe Spiro (Chaparral High School) replied to your post 15 hours ago
    Hmmm a good treatise but... I disagree on certain points.

    Because a top level Mixed Martial Artist is so incredibly better at fighting than just your average Joe Schmo training for a specific fight (as long as only temporarily) wouldn't necessarily impede their ability to defend themselves.

    A truelly great JKD fighter could easily transition. Cutting out shots to the groin and hairpulling and stuff are just limits for the match not for life and if they are great they would already be in shape to compete. Anyways nutshots are harder to land than most think. Watch some old vale tudo.

    As long as someone trains lethal techniques in addition to MMA they should be just fine. Hahaha basically Kali + MMA= Awesome.

    Hmmm I kind of want to start a group similar to this because...no offense I think the name of the group is offputting to many MMA fighters who abhor anything chinese. I think a group for all fighters (who spar at least) would be cool something like... "Fighters of the World nite!"




    Post #3
    1 reply

    You replied to Joe's post 15 hours ago
    My point was not that a MMA fighter could not easily transition, it was that there will be a time period, split second - several seconds, in which the fighter will have to mentally adjust his approach to the situation. During this mental block Joe Schmo will attempt to capitalize and could very well do so. Joe could actually be one of the best MA pracitioners in the world, you just don't know it because he choses to not participate in Mixed Martial Art competition. My only reason for the statement was to give MMA practioners who read this the boost they need to train slightly differently. When you apply an arm bar, you should always mentally think about breaking his neck with your heal in real application - that way, you will be prepared to apply it. Do not let yourself be caught offguard because you are not used to the idea of mortally or seriously wounding someone in a battle.





    Post #4

    Joe Spiro (Chaparral High School) replied to your post 15 hours ago
    Ahhh the implicit and explicit motives are different. Hmm this is a beautiful piece of work then.





    Post #5
    1 reply

    You replied to Joe's post 15 hours ago
    The point of my Tao is to not limit yourself to the laws of sport. If a submission is available, do not train to simply submit; train to break - at least mentally; physically with dummies. If a kill shot is available, do not train to do anything other than take the kill; a single moment of decision is a dangerous moment. In the very unlikely occurence of a real fight for your life situation, you should never be unprepared. Don't get caught offguard! That is the point.

    I have personally never found it hard to strike the groin, it seems to call to my feet. Never-the-less; your idea for a group is wonderful, perhaps you should start one.





    Post #6
    4 replies

    Bum Deggy (Minneapolis / St. Paul, MN) replied to your post 8 hours ago
    the groin shot prohibition is the unmentioned rule then? i figured as much. :)

    also, dunno if you're familiar with Fedor Emelianenko or not, but there's a Lee-like MMA fighter if anyone is. he's HW champ of the world mainly because of his flawless ability to transition. he's an excellent sambo submission artist and a pretty great striker with good, even all-around defense...but it's really his transitions between his strengths to optimally exploit his opponents' weaknesses that puts him in a class of his own, IMO. well actually that's not my opinion, the PRIDE commentators gave me the idea...
    i might also disagree with the thought that JKD practitioners would be in any way disproportionately disadvantaged in MMA, unless you think ONLY a true JKD practitioner would practice to use prohibited moves so frequently as to confuse his life-or-death-fighting instincts with his sport-fighting instincts. i think many other martial arts train mainly for life-or-death fights as well; and unless training a lot for a sport-fighting event would make someone less of a JKD purist in your mind, there's no reason a JKD practitioner couldn't learn to fight with different instincts in sport fights. truly, i think the potency of the JKD tao would be well-applied to most MMA sport-fighting training regimens, if in a modified-for-rule-compliance sort of way. i realize this modification alone is largely against the grain of the JKD tao, but of course there is much more to JKD than lethality and dirty fighting. kind of like what you were saying about Couture being the Lee of MMA. transitions and formlessness and the whole no-mind thing.





    Post #9

    You replied to Bum's post 3 hours ago
    The hidden rule is not the groin strike. It is the fact that you can not mortally wounder your opponent in a legal fashion; that is the greatest hindurance to the sport of MMA - it forces you to hold back continueously. That is why MMA pails in comparison to JKD.

    Fedor is amazing. I chose Randy to speak about because of the type of individual that he is; someone who will fall off the horse, yet immediately bounce back on top by willing himself to do so. Each time Randy comes back, it's against a different style of opponent; his game is always growing and always changing and always improving. Fedor has not yet been tested by devastating failure; therein will lie his limitation in a real life situation. In all likelihood it may be a non-exhistant or non-noticable limitation; although, it is present.

    One must first accept that they may not be the greatest, that they may not "win" this battle. If you enter believing that nothing can stop you and no one stands a chance, you may be in for a reality check. Every human breaks just as easily as the next - it is only the opponent that uses pure self control without control that is hard to break.




    Post #10

    You replied to Bum's post 3 hours ago
    Also, I do not think that any true JKD practitioner would be at a disadvantage in a real fight; I do however believe that anyone who claims to represent JKD can not do so in anyway or right when entering a sanctioned, legal fight/MMA. It is not possible. Because of the limitations of the sport; the only way to participate is by following the Tao of JKD; which would result in your arrest and potential loss of life on death row. If someone enters a fight with set laws/limits, they are not free to use their art as it is meant to be... What the JKD practictioner becomes is a decently trained MA who has likely had very little MMA experience and will potentially make themselves look bad in the sport - that does not mean it will ALWAYS occur; it simply means that if a JKD practictioner limits his method, he will ultimately fail at some point.

    The sport has no consequence or meaning; it is not better to be a practicioner of the sport than it is to be a master of MA - someone who completely yields the power of MA; has no fear of using all MA; allows no humanistic conscience to dictate his actions; yet still has the compassion to control whether or not he takes the kill shot without having to dwell on such issues. A JKD practitioner entering a MMA fight leaves JKD behind; MMA is limited; JKD is not. You can not fit the limitless form of JKD inside the small box of Mixed Martial Art. That is like attempting to fit the Universe inside of the Galaxy, there just isn't enough room for the rest of reality in MMA.



    .
    .
    To be read from the bottom, up.

    The following is a conversation i am having with a Mahayanna Buddhist on the beneficial aspects of Martial Art. I will incorporate this along with my book. Let me know your thoughts on our conversations together. He is a very deadicated Boddhistava and it is my great pleasure to speak on issues such as these with him. Or, anyone else who brings good conversation.


    at 10:32pm
    I can understand where you disagree.

    What I meant by the statement: 'not accepting one type of knowledge renders another knowledge useless.'

    If you personally claim that my choice is wrong and then I personally claim that your choice is wrong, there is no set standard for what is right. Because all earthly knowledge is created and retained by man, you must acknowledge always that you do not know more than the human mind is capable of; that is the limitation of this reality. Our metaphysical consciousness is sleeping here, the goal is to awaken from this sleep. Only then will you truely know anything. Because in this reality the human mind and the human minds limitations control what is right and wrong, with as much biaism as is ever-present in these limited minds. If you do not acknowledge a set standard of correctness between humanistic relations, there is no correctness. Another way to put it: by stating MA is not correct, laws of this Metaphys reality prove Buddhism the same.



    at 10:28pm
    Whatever your reason; that is why I suggested the study of MA for you.Not out of hubrice, or greed or for a trick of any kind. If you find yourself in a situation where you have limited control over your emotions - you must learn to best them. That is the only way to leave self behind,to fully awaken. Regardless of if it is through MA or solitude - which I, also, have spent a great deal of time in. You know as well as I that acceptance of the limitations of self is necessary. All I have claimed is that for me, MA has been a useful journey that I feel would benefit anyone who offers themselves as a Boddhisatva; especially on the path to reaching Buddha mentallity. Self is the greatest hindurance on this path. If you challenge yourself you can improve your mental strength enough to detach from self.

    The way in which you approached your last comment seemed angry or fearful; almost as if spiteful toward the subject. Have I made you feel as if I attacked your stance in a boastful way?



    at 10:25pm
    I am sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to devalue your practice. When I said it was a disgusting waste of time it was in the context of one who can practice tantra, for that person to do anything else would be a waste of time because tantra is so benificial to them and everyone else, but perhaps my wording was poor. The only other thing I objected to was the statement that not accepting one thing makes all knowledge useless. This I disagree with, there are many people who do not accept many things but we cannot force all knowledge on them at once, they must learn bit by bit and every piece of knowledge will be useful. As for the relative usefulness of MA I must say I am negativley biased, the experiances I had were not bad per se but I became very aggressive and violent, but of course that could nit have happened if I was not that way to begin with. I apologize for the harshness of my remarks.



    at 9:58pm
    When I was a child, I did not approve of violence of any kind. As I feel today. I studied the art of TaeKwon Do and was one of my instructors best students. However, when I sparred other students I could not bring myself to hurt them. I would purposely throw my strikes to the side to make sure they did not get injured by me in anyway, I would take physical punishment constantly from my instructors and fellow students because I mentally would not allow myself to committ an act of violence upon them. What I did not understand was that in Martial Art; as in life; with the right committment and intentions, one can fully practice the art without committing violence of anykind.

    I learned how to control myself mentally at a very young age. Perhaps your experience was similar and you did not feel you needed to continue your study; or, perhaps you found yourself losing control of your mentallity and did not like the violence that you instowed on another individual.



    at 9:53pm
    I may speak highly of Martial Art because I have had lifelong exposure to it, but that does not narrow my vision on the metaphysical reality which surrounds me. That also does not inhibit my understanding of Dharma or Buddha. As long as we remain in this cycle of life our metaphysical conscience will remain nearly continuously attached.

    When I speak about Martial Art I am not speaking about the UFC or Pride fighting or anything along those lines; I am speaking about the Art; all arts, with no limitations. Not the practicioners which surround it or the method in which they approach MA. The study and pursuit is a valid one and you can learn many important things along the way. To claim otherwise would be narrowing your acceptance of reality and placing a limit on Dharma which is non-exhistant.

    I fully acknowledge that some may have a bad experience with MA. I have to wonder if your experience was one of mental stress?



    at 9:39pm
    Not accepting certain things makes all knowledge useless.

    The intelligence of the human mind is pointless; yet it creates all knowledge and retains it.

    By claiming that MA is the only way to reach enlightenment; you claim that all other knowledge is useless.

    By claiming that MA is not the only way to reach enlightenment, but that it is one; you claim that all other knowledge may be useful.

    So, by stating that it is incorrect to claim that MA is a valid exercise to improving your mental openness you are stating that only your view is correct.

    By claiming that Martial Art is a disgusting practice you are reflecting the mirror of harsh opinion onto the way you chose to represent your enlightened view. This ultimately does narrow your approach.

    I am not claiming that MA is the only way to enlightenment and I never have. Although; in my experience, it formed the saucer of my life. This saucer is a perfect fit for the cup of enlightenment which has grown out from it.



    at 2:30pm
    Be careful Jeff, you speak against narrowing your view but in fact your view is very narrow. To say that not accepting certain things makes al knowledge useful is cool sounding but not true. A monk once said, the dharma is like the sun, every ray of its light can, alone, brighten your mind. Also, it is a narrow view to take t assume that the martial arts are always helpful if used right. I don't mean to be critical but I can only assume that this view comes from your peronal experiance, I can promise you that many people achieve quick enlightenment without martial training. It can be helpful but it can also hinder. If you have the karma and wish to be able t practice tantra spending time on martial artd is a disgusting waste fo time. But for those with weak concentration and discipline it can help, but so can other things. At least that is my own narrow opinion.


    at 10:48pm on June 7th, 2007
    In the mythical journey towards complete awakenment; one can increase the speed of their walk by studying the tao and philosophies of Martial Art. The same can be said about everything; open your mind and hear what is said, listen carefully, pay attention - that is how one forms a basis of universal knowledge. Because knowledge is only created by man, the ideals of Buddhism are passed on through man and only valuable to those who chose to study them. The same is true of Martial Art; if one believes that the journey to awakenment can not be reached through the study of the mental and physical philosophies - they will only hinder their benefit and knowledge gained. Narrowing your view of the mental benefits and oppurtunities is equal to rendering all knowledge useless. One should treat their body as their temple; one should remain constant and focused on the goal at hand. The two goals are one and the same - to seperate your mind from your body and become one with your surroundings



    at 10:32pm on June 7th, 2007
    That is true. Martial Art is only an ideal; just as Dharma. When coupled, the two will walk hand in hand. The teachings of many different styles of Martial Art follow total compassion for life; the students themselves do not create Martial Art, they merely attempt to; it is only the true Martial Artist/practicioner that creates it/represents it in its entirety. Just as Siddheartha was the one true Buddha - the Buddhist follower continuously strives to be; some very poorly; some very greatly.



    at 12:27pm on June 7th, 2007
    But take a minute to consider what that means, It works for some but not others, this comes back to where the Dharma says that nothing is inherently exsistant, Martial arts are nither good nor bad. They are for each person a reflection of that person's mind and, in fact, created by that person;s mind. Martial arts do not posses any hidden power in and of themselves, it is the practitioners who give it streangth or weakness.


    at 1:06am on June 7th, 2007
    If one can not control their anger, one can not stop their anger. Learning to control it is the first step; the most important step; the hardest. Only then will total control be reached. If you hide from your hatred; it will bottle and ultimately pop like a cork. That is the way of things for those who do not chose to view this world from the outside in. For a truely enlightened spirit, total control can be reached in many ways; although, truthful study of Martial Art and the Tao of Martial Art is one of the oldest and strongest methods, tested with time.

    There are many dangerous and violent people who practice martial art; those people are too blind to understand the meaning of the gift and the beauty that it can spread/provide.



    at 9:29pm on June 6th, 2007
    I don't know if I would say theu are one and the same. Martial arts can help to combat our anger but I believe that only Dharma can remove it at its root.



    at 2:05pm on June 6th, 2007
    Hmm... that is very unusual. There could be a very valuable test for yourself there. Does the Buddha not teach to learn and control your emotions/fears?

    I believe that it could be a very valuable journey for you if you learned to masterfully control your inhibitions through Martial Art. It is one in the same with Dharma; true study of MA can lead to complete control over ones of temper/violence.



    at 11:41am on June 6th, 2007
    I have studied them but I've found that my agressive nature i actually a bit counter active to that purpose. I end up just getting violent.



    at 10:52am on June 6th, 2007
    Have you ever studied martial art to help with your tranquility and meditation purposes?




    Willing is not enough, we must apply.
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  4. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:04pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is there a particular reason you brought this to my doorstep, the KMA forum?

    Something like this belongs in YMAS, but if this is personal, then we can go.
    Last edited by Jiggle Butt; 6/11/2007 7:08pm at .
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:10pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TkdTAOJkd
    I have removed this discussion.
    A useless gesture, as it has already been quoted above.

    Why did you remove it?

    Are you afraid of criticism?
  6. TkdTAOJkd is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:13pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those unwilling to openly accept what is possible are limited to that same amount of capability/potential. I wish you all goodluck in your endeavors.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:16pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TkdTAOJkd
    Those unwilling to openly accept what is possible are limited to that same amount of capability/potential. I wish you all goodluck in your endeavors.

    What also is possible is that your post was as childish as your current tantrum which caused you to re-edit your posts and remove their content.

    Do you openly accept that capability/potential? Or, are you limited to not being able to take any criticism?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

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  8. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:20pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TkdTAOJkd
    Those unwilling to openly accept what is possible are limited to that same amount of capability/potential. I wish you all goodluck in your endeavors.
    Stick around.

    I'm willing to honor your request and am going over your manifesto right now.

    I should have a response for you in an hour or so.
  9. RunningDog is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:37pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just read most of that ignorant diatribe.

    n00b claims:

    MMA is not effective for the street becoz ov rules.
    You can adapt the training to fight a "killer" by "thinking about" doing teh deadly moves while you're training, eg (to paraphrase) thinking about breaking your training partners neck, with your foot, while you arm bar him. (wtf?)
    He also claims that trained fighters don't do offline attacks, and that you can fool them by offlining.
    He is also under the impression that a good takedown can be ruined by a 'soccer player's knee'.

    Conclusion: God only knows what the poster was thinking writing that garbage from the position of ignorance he is so clearly in. Let alone posting it on a website where it would be roundly ripped into, if anyone could be fucked to read it.
  10. ironlurker is offline
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    How do Chameleon Circuit?

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 7:55pm


     Style: jkd

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