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  1. fedeykin is offline

    Village of Idiocy Resident

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2007 2:16pm


     Style: Dead Lemur Style

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    -------Tai Chi and Aikido have more to do with philosophy and chi and bullshit like that, especially Tai Chi.-----


    please dont put tai chi and aikido in the same boat. especialy if you have no clue what tai chi is.

    many people choose to practice martial arts as a complement to their spiritual practice. if you choose not thats your problem.

    in my opinion practicing spirituality/philosophy without adding a hands-on approach like martial arts is what is called an armchair philosopher.

    and practicing martial arts without using your mind to contemplate the existance and the universe, or at least contemplate the reason to your training and will to improve yourself is incomplete and will leave you being nothing but a brute.
  2. Rashomon is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 2:05pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fightin Penguin
    But, if they are writing on philosophy, then they ARE adding in philosophy.
    No. They are writing ABOUT philosophy, not making philosophy a part of writing. They aren't saying that you don't have "writing" if you don't have "philosophy".
  3. Rashomon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 2:18pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Errant108
    ...in order to consider it martial arts training I still must engage in combative training and practice. "Adding in philosophy" does not mean I can skip actually learning how to fight.
    Exactly.



    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    my brother studied Yoshinkan Aikido in Tokyo for a few years. They spent their time on vigorous, even brutal training. I haven't seen the same thing in North America though.
    That's not surprising. Most of us Americans are soft. Soccer moms view dojos as after-school daycares and self esteem programs for little Timmy. If little Timmy had to train hard, and if he had to lose in real sparring, then he would feel sad and quit. McDojo Sensai can't have that, so he adds a bunch of fluff and removes the fighting.



    Quote Originally Posted by Reboot
    ...If you're teaching someone combat, then in my opinion, you're also obligated to teach them to be able to make the decision of when, where and how much of it to use. This is especially true for kids; adults know that karate chopping someone in the throat because they tried to hit you is not okay.

    As for "philosophy", I don't care about that. At all. Usually, when someone starts throwing the word "philosophy" around, it means that they're about to start telling you how full of themselves they are.
    ...
    The closest I've ever come to teaching "philosophy" is by quoting Sun Tzu or Musashi, and that's more strategy or mindset than anything.
    Oh, yeah. I definitely agree with that. I don't have a problem telling students, especially younger kids, that they should be responsible with what they learn. I don't really consider that "philosophy", though.
  4. Rashomon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 2:38pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fedeykin
    practicing martial arts without using your mind to contemplate the existance and the universe, or at least contemplate the reason to your training and will to improve yourself is incomplete and will leave you being nothing but a brute.
    Do you believe that the only place you can use your mind to "contemplate the existance and the universe, or at least contemplate the reason to your training" is in a dojo?

    Maybe that is the major difference between the two sides. One side believes you can only gain spiritual enlightenment through studying martial arts. The other side believes you can gain spiritual enlightenment outside of the martial arts.

    I am in the latter camp. Ghandi and Mother Theresa were pretty spiritually-enlightened people, for example, but I'll bet their martial arts sucked.
  5. whybother is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 2:40pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  6. jon25 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 3:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ????????????????????????????
  7. Te(V)plar is offline

    Stallowned!

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 7:14pm


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Adding philosophy adds an aire of BS mysticism and lends bullshido artists a convenient cop-out. Martial arts are about fighting. Period. Any philosophy you pick up from it should be derived from bleeding and sweating on the mat.
  8. Te(V)plar is offline

    Stallowned!

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 7:18pm


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fedeykin
    -------Tai Chi and Aikido have more to do with philosophy and chi and bullshit like that, especially Tai Chi.-----


    please dont put tai chi and aikido in the same boat. especialy if you have no clue what tai chi is.

    many people choose to practice martial arts as a complement to their spiritual practice. if you choose not thats your problem.

    in my opinion practicing spirituality/philosophy without adding a hands-on approach like martial arts is what is called an armchair philosopher.

    and practicing martial arts without using your mind to contemplate the existance and the universe, or at least contemplate the reason to your training and will to improve yourself is incomplete and will leave you being nothing but a brute.
    It honestly strikes me as bizarre that learning how to fight should somehow overtly be made a spiritual practice. This isn't religion. Does Michael Jordan consider basketball a spiritual endeavor beyond his own deep passion for the game? I think not. I dont need to direct you to the countless threads on here about con-artists using the "spirituality" angle to hide the ineffectiveness of their own arts.


    Aikido and Tai Chi... 2 so-called "spiritual" martial arts... are absolute crap for defending yourself. Hey, if you get your jollies flailing your arms around and looking like a total fruit in central park than more power to you, but let's not read more into it than is truly present, capice?
  9. DAYoung is offline
    DAYoung's Avatar

    Crouching Philosopher, Hidden Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 7:27pm

    supporting member
     Style: n/a (ex-Karate)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by yanta
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying studying martial arts, or even studying philosophy, is pointless.
    What? Even philosophy might not be pointless?

    Well, colour me a puce shade of astonished.

    I just think you need to be very clear-headed about what you're really doing, that's all.
    I can't imagine how philosophy might be helpful in this.
    Martial Arts and Philosophy: Beating and Nothingness
    click here to order on Amazon

  10. Te(V)plar is offline

    Stallowned!

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 7:31pm


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're spending mat-time ruminating over bullshit philosophy it means you're spending less time training hard. Frankly, when I'm being strangled so hard I start losing my vision, I'm a little too preoccupied to contemplate the universal meaning of rolling on a mat with a sweaty dude.
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