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  1. bob is offline
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    Prophet of Apathy

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 4:12pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    HGH doesn't work?

    Since y'all seem to be a bunch of juice junkies here I thought you might find this new Australian study interesting.

    To summarise - no improvement in sports performance or muscle mass from taking HGH. Increase in overall body mass due to fluid retention. Suggestion of significant placebo effect. Improvements however, when combined with testosterone.


    hormone no aid for prowess


    AN illicit hormone infamous for bulking muscles in elite athletes does nothing to boost sports performance after all, new Australian research suggests.
    Human growth hormone must be taken alongside testosterone if it is to have any impact on muscle mass, strength or speed, according to surprising new findings released by the Garvan Institute in Sydney.

    Scientists said their study, partly funded by the World Anti-Doping Agency, helps develop new drug tests and brings the international sporting community closer to stamping out cheats.

    The world-first project evaluated the effects of genetically-modified growth hormone used either alone or with testosterone, a combination Sylvester Stallone recently admitted taking for an undisclosed medical condition.

    Both drugs are illegal for sports purposes but are widely abused by both recreational and professional athletes, most famously Chinese swimmers at the 1998 World Swimming Championships.

    "We were surprised to find that human growth hormone has no effect on muscle mass or sports performance," said lead investigator Professor Ken Ho, who will release his results at a world endocrinology meeting in Canada today.

    It did boost overall body mass, due largely to fluid retention, but did not affect muscle mass or overall sports performance.

    "If it had a dramatic affect, we would have found it," Prof Ho said.

    They did find, however, that the hormone does have an effect when taken with testosterone, boosting muscle mass and one particular aspect of performance - sprint power.

    But this finding in itself has allowed scientists to develop new doping tests to more easily catch cheats who use both drugs.

    "The combined drug regime enhances the sensitivity of our tests and means we can detect sports dopers for weeks after they stop taking the banned substances," Prof Ho said.
    "This has major implications for random drug testing."

    Researchers recruited 100 young recreational athletes, randomly assigning the men high doses of growth hormone, testosterone, both or a placebo. Women got either growth hormone or the dummy substance.

    Effectiveness was judged on key aspects of sports performance like strength, power, and endurance.

    Many participants assigned the placebo wrongly believed they were on growth hormone and vice-versa. This proved, said the researchers, that the benefits of the drug were not real but imagined.

    Student Emma Norval was convinced the hormone was behind her improvements as an endurance runner before discovering she was on the dummy drug.

    "It really makes you think about all the other supplements like protein powders and whether they really do have an effect on you," said Ms Norval, a psychology student.
    Experts hope the paper, presented to the Endocrine Society in Toronto, will deter the newly-emerging generation of athletes from taking hormones.

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...005961,00.html
  2. sdave is offline
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    Banished to Fort Worth

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 4:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Article is useless. "High doses" isn't quantified. Nor do they link to or even *name* the actual study. The Institute has published a few and I don't feel like sifting through a stack of Google results for what is likely to be a study using $10 of hGH a week...
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    That is exactly what I meant sdave. You are dead on, as usual.
  3. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 4:20pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've seen guys with deformed bone structure in their faces from taking that much of this ****, it must be doing something.
  4. sdave is offline
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    Banished to Fort Worth

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 4:25pm

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     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    I've seen guys with deformed bone structure in their faces from taking that much of this ****, it must be doing something.
    If they're taking enough to develop acromegaly (bleh), they should be seeing *some* drop in bodyfat and/or increase in muscle mass...

    Clearly, there is NO WAY doses even close to this level were used in the above referenced study.
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    That is exactly what I meant sdave. You are dead on, as usual.
  5. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 4:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, I've been trying to remember what they call it, cheers!

    Yes, these guys are all 20+ stone of muscle, so it 'works'. I'd hate to see what their organs look like though, and these guys aren't fit in the least, they get tired just walking around. It's pretty ridiculous really, they spend every spare moment in the gym and they have the stamina level of the clinically obese...
  6. antman is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 4:39pm


     Style: Silat, New to Hsing- Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That and it was Australian Research should tell you something right there
    "Its not important to be strong, its just important not to be weak."
  7. bob is offline
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    Prophet of Apathy

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 5:12pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    sdave, the study was presented to the world endocrinology society only yesterday so I imagine internet information will be scanty on the specifics. Do you have any links to high quality studies which suggests hgh does improve muscle mass and sports performance?
  8. sdave is offline
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    Banished to Fort Worth

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 5:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bornsceptic
    sdave, the study was presented to the world endocrinology society only yesterday so I imagine internet information will be scanty on the specifics.
    While the article does say early on "world endocrine society" they later specify that they're talking about the Endocrine Society. I honestly know nothing about that organization, and I'm sure they do fine work, but you have to admit that "world endocrine society" sounds kinda like the "world fighting championships"...


    Quote Originally Posted by bornsceptic
    Do you have any links to high quality studies which suggests hgh does improve muscle mass and sports performance?
    Never seen any studies that were that impressive, though admittedly, I didn't look that hard. Empirical data like Lu Tze's guys or the patients we saw in the clinic suggests that it's great for cutting body fat and provides modest (at best) muscle gains at high (more than a couple of units a day) doses.

    I'd be genuinely surprised if the doses in the study were greater than 1.5 units a day. If anyone finds the full study, or even an abstract with dosages, I'd be interested in reading it.
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    That is exactly what I meant sdave. You are dead on, as usual.
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 6:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, the article doesn't even mention how the tests were done. Even the opening paragraph of this web article is retarded.

    AN illicit hormone infamous for bulking muscles in elite athletes does nothing to boost sports performance after all, new Australian research suggests.
    1. If it is infamous for bulking muscle, then that's an admission that it works for bulking muscles.

    2. The it says that it does nothing to boost sports performance.

    3. Then it says the following:

    Human growth hormone must be taken alongside testosterone if it is to have any impact on muscle mass, strength or speed, according to surprising new findings released by the Garvan Institute in Sydney.

    Which means it does something (contradicting claim #2); it just happen to need to be combined with testosterone. It's like saying calcium doesn't do **** because its metabolism is dependent on vitamin C intake.

    It's also worth nothing the following:

    They did find, however, that the hormone does have an effect when taken with testosterone, boosting muscle mass and one particular aspect of performance - sprint power.

    So it does something, in contradiction to its opening sentence.

    The article is really useless. Until the full details are disclosed (nature of subjects, amounts used, etc), the article is useless. Also, the fact that the results are going to be presented at a top conference doesn't mean squat... yet.

    The results are going to be presented, for peer scrutiny. Other scientists will take those results and the framework used. Then they will attempt to replicate the experiment. Questions will be made. Counterarguments (with existing data if it exists) will be made.

    Conferences and symposiums are not places where researches go and say "Here I am. Give me the seal of validation." They go there to have their experiments scrutinized. If they survive scrutiny, then they are validated.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2007 6:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Done by biased quacks, but on the other hand, it didn't work for Liddell vs Rampage.

    Also, LOL@Muchacha coming out of the woodwork to defend steroids. Never saw that coming.
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