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  1. King Sleepless is offline
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    I am a living legend!

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2007 2:05pm

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     Style: Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltySpark
    Roaming east good post.
    I've crawled around a blackhawk and there is definatly not that much room in there. Same situation with armored vehicle crews, space is a premium.

    Just carrying a pistol is not an option. We have a shortage of pistols in the Canadian Forces and what doesn't help at all is offcers and NCOs who work in air conditioned offices don't like carrying around a big rifle so they get pistols before the troops.
    We also have a chronic problem with fucked up pistol magazines so you get 3 to 5 shots off before the browning jams.

    Having a carbine/PDW size weapon is required but considering how many members of the US that I saw stuck using M16s and not able to get M4s, isn't it safe to assume that you'll have an even harder time getting new weapons filtered down?

    Air crews & should definatly have a carbine type weapon but I'm still not convinced on how well they will be filtered down, the availability of ammunition and quality of training.

    Also, like with out pistols, I can see people who NEED the weapons getting passed up by others who want the new kit and wanna look cool. Same way supply techs are rear support types often get the new equipment first.
    HA HA! You're in the Canadian army.

  2. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/13/2007 2:13pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At least he's not in the RCAF

  3. ysc87 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/13/2007 2:53pm


     Style: crapp-lawl-ing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i just nearly pissed myself laughing. that made my afternoon- thanks, guys.
  4. vigilus is offline
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    Infidel

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2007 3:12pm


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure was a lot of water in Afghanistan!
    Last edited by vigilus; 6/13/2007 4:12pm at .
  5. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Posted On:
    6/13/2007 11:43pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blame it on the poor American education system and the lack of curling and ice hockey eh?
  6. Bladesinger is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 5:09pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also blame Neildo, for posting a picture of an F-16 from Shaw AFB, SC.

    That'd be funnier if it was actually a Canadian aircraft. ;-)
  7. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 5:10pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    o rly? blame the dumb canuck whos hosting that image then.
  8. Bladesinger is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2007 5:21pm


     Style: MMA, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neildo
    o rly? blame the dumb canuck whos hosting that image then.
    I wouldn't expect a Canuck to get it right, but you, Mr. Random Internet Poster I Know Nothing About, you should know better.
  9. Sh0t is offline
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    Martial and Sexual Artist

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 1:47pm

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     Style: standup to ground

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PDw concept is silly.

    Just issue and train everybody to use pistols. There is no need for a scaled down carbine, added logistical pain, etc. It sucks that the right people don't get them, but that's not a engineering problem. That's a personnel problem. I've seen it, I know about it.

    Go back to a pistol caliber worth having(45) and leave it there. Training makes up for a lot of imperfect equipment, not that a PDW is perfect equipment anyway.

    If they want to issue a sub-gun, just issue mac10s in 45 or something. Extremely cheap, easy to operate, easy to unjam and field strip, pretty durable. Use the same round for pistols and the machine pistol/PDW, make them cheap(so they can be ubiquitous, no sense having a great weapon nobody has because it's too expensive), and train everybody how to use them.

    As far as rifle rounds go, 5.56mm is fine, as is 7.62, but they should have really picked one. Having everybody use the same ammo makes up for a lot of the shortcomings of whatever round has in particular.

    Biggest problem with the m16 family is the gas system, IMO. Which has been addressed by a new generation of gas tappet system rifles(hk 416, etc).

    Burst needs to go. Semi or full auto. Everything inbetween is unnecessary complication and reduces the MTBF. I experienced in the switch from the m4 to the m4a1. Big difference. Hampering equipment to address a TRAINING problem was retarded.


    The mp5 is a sensible weapon for a certain mission profile, but it's MILITARY use is limited. Easily supressed, lightweight, fairly compact, VERY accurate, pistol caliber rounds that don't penetrate through 5 walls and hit babies next door, ammo is cheaper for limited budget agencies that would expet to use them, etc. If the targets are expected to be unarmored and engagements are going to be close-quarters, why not? Easier on the ears, I still think my hearing is fucked from firing carbines indoors. Messing up my Britney spears listening experience

    As far as crewspace, I've been in most of the passenger carrying choppers in the US inventory, there is room to store carbines if necessary. Blackhawks have room, our Frogs certainly had room, the Navy hueys have room, etc. LAR platoons manage to carry their rifles just fine. If anything get a carbine witha FOLDING stock instead of a telescoping stock. I've always thought that was a way better option. The g36c is my favorite rifle/carbine, ergonomically. Telescoping stocks gotta go.

    There is time to train crews to use the ****, but too much time is spent on unnecessary ****, IMO. It doesn't take a ton of time to learn how to shoot a pistol, carbine, or pistol really. Especially when Delta Force level shooting accuracy isn't required.

    The m9 magazine problem is very real and it's cost me a friend. I've actually sent quite a few magazines abroad. The m9 was a political choice, so it's not the best. Basically, because we forced 5.56 on Europe, they forced 9mm on us, and the rest is history. It took me a while, but I'm pretty much married to the 1911 now, and wilson magazines.

    One basic rifle, folding stock, barrel length options, common receiver. One basic pistol caliber for subgun/pistol(45), but I think pistols and a folding stock carbine should pretty much cover the requirements for vehicle crews.
  10. King Sleepless is offline
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    I am a living legend!

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2007 2:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, but you're forgetting that the MP7 is so darn cute.
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