Spoken like a man who's never fired a win-mag.
Originally Posted by SFGOON
Well... I wouldn't say they're as good as they're going to get... the problem is that the military is told that they will use weapons x and y so as to be compliant with a bunch of other countries who've decided to use crap for ammunition. Until that artificial requirement for our weapons is gone, the military sure as heck won't see anything worthwhile happen.
What we need is a new pig board. Winner stays, hopefully PETA doesn't hear about it first.
Last edited by wetware; 6/06/2007 2:30am at .
You're a fucking moron. That's not an opinion. Please kill yourself by drinking bleach, or perhaps swallowing gallons of gasoline.
Originally Posted by Abusivemelon
I can't believe that you beat out 3 million other sperm.
Not that I am an expert on firearms or anything but the whole idea of pdfs seems stupid. It seems like a good idea having armor piercing bullets in a more compact package but why can't people just be issued carbines? Is an M4 really too much for a truck driver or other logistical personnel?
What is it with creating another retarded caliber? Its armor piercing but I believe 4.6mm round is even smaller than the 9mm, like half the size. What kind of stopping power is that?
The day of the submachine gun (pdf or whatever they call them these days) on the modern battlefield is over. Except in very specialized situations, having separate small caliber arms doesn't make sense in a day where everyone can have an m4 carbine. Kel Tec even makes a big pistol that fires 5.56 NATO that takes m-16 mags, talk about big things in small packages.
I even think the MP5 is stupid. The first submachine guns were usually created to make a super cheap gun. Pistol caliber, cheap materials, and fast firing. The MP5 is the anithesis of thw whole idea behind a submachine gun. Again, if accuracy and reliability really becomes a sticking point why nont just issue carbines? What was the whole point of creating 5.56 NATO anyway except that it was a light recoiling, light weight, armor piercing round? The MP7 is a really expensive solution to a problem that doesn't really exist (at least to me).
We need some fucking laser guns. Thats what will bring victory in Irag, fucking Storm Trooper rifles and AT-AT walkers. And speeder bikes!
HELL YEAH PEW PEW PEW
You do have a point there. A modified colt commander or something along those lines, with a short barrel and collapsible stock would be pretty small, light, accurate and pack a punch.
edit: from world.guns.ru:
Caliber: 4.6x30mm HK
Weight: 1.5 kg empty
Length (stock closed/open): 340 / 540 mm
Barrel length: 180 mm
Rate of fire: 950 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 or 40 rounds
Effective range: 150-200 meters
Caliber: 5.56x45 mm (.223 Remington)
Weigth: 2.44 kg empty
Overall length: 680 - 762 mm
Barrel length: 292 mm
Rate of fire: 750 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (or any other M16 type magazine)
Last edited by Neildo; 6/06/2007 12:46pm at .
Was this an attempt at a serious thread?
Originally Posted by SUSHI SASHIMI
This is why I have you in my sig as someone that nobody should listen to. Idiot.
Originally Posted by Abusivemelon
From what I've been reading. It seems that the MP7 is for your non-front-line troops who already carry something like the MP5, or naval units who are going to be in close quarter battling, e.g. shooting each other from like 20 feet away on a boat or something. I mean I know of a few cities who's SWAT uses an MP5, but are now switching to an MP7. Granted the city I live in, SWAT uses Steyr AUGA1's that are semi-auto (California sucks.)
Originally Posted by rsobrien
They seem like very good close quarters weapons. The MP5 has been around for a while and has been fairly popular and used quite a bit, I don't see how you could say it's outdated or something as it's still in use today.
You will see SWAT teams take Colt Commandos about as often as an MP5. The thing about an MP5 is that it fires from a closed bolt ( I am pretty sure), this makes it more accurate as opposed to an open bolt you would find on say a Sten gun. But a pistol caliber round fired from a submachhine gun or carbine is still a pistol round. Thats why some guys will take Colts because they are compact, accurate, and armor piercing.
I say submachine guns in general are outdated because with the coming of calibers 5.56 NATO, whats the point anymore? Submachine guns were made to create a cheap rapid firing weapon that could be hand held. That is why they used pistol calibers. It makes it cheaper and lighter. That is why there was a move to create intermediate rounds like 5.56 and 7.62. 5.56 NATO is so much smaller and lighter than the previous 7.62, why did we even create the 5.56 in the first place if we are going to create yet another useless caliber?
In certain specialized situations where ultra ultra compactness is neccesary like say bodyguard work or storming a submarine, I can see where such a weapon might be useful. On the whole, I just think the idea of another submachine gun (and a really expensive one at that) and a new expensive and tiny caliber bullet to go with it doesn't make sense logistically. For special situations, okay sure, general issue, a big waste of money.
This is pretty much why I asked. I <3 my TM.
Originally Posted by KidSpatula