What do you guys think of the MP7?

[Sh0t]

Why do special units and police CONTINUOUSLY return to the 1911? Why is it still in high rate production almost 100 years later? Why does the Marine Corps spend so much effort in custom gun smithing 1911s? Why did we recall the m9 and re-issue the 1911s for a while? Why does it top Jeff Cooper(rip)'s recommendations?

Because it's top notch. Having more rounds per magazine doesn't necessarily mean more stopping power is at your disposal, and when accuracized properly, the 1911 becomes a tack driver and retains its durability and high MTBF. Pair a Kimber or equivalent with Wilson magazines and your reliability is pretty much assured.

The single stack design makes the handle quite slim and adds a lot to the comfort and accuracy. It also makes it, ironically, easier, for most shooters than double stack 9mms.

Personally, I think the 1911 is fairly ugly, but it works.

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/why_the_m1911.htm

Rosco S. Benson on rec.guns “Is the 1911 an Outdated Design?”

Of course the 1911 is an outdated design. It came from an era when weapons were designed to win fights, not to avoid product liability lawsuits. It came from an era where it was the norm to learn how your weapon operated and to practice that operation until it became second nature, not to design the piece to the lowest common denominator. It came from an era in which our country tried to supply its fighting men with the best tools possible, unlike today, when our fighting men and women are issued hardware that was adopted because of international deal-making or the fact that the factory is in some well-connected congressman's district. Yes, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the 1911 IS an outdated design....and that's exactly what I love about it.

[vigilus]

1911 has a 7 round magazine and is almost 100 years old.

In a world where you can buy a Glock in every caliber and have at least twice the number of shots in a dual stack magazine, why bother with a 1911, nostalgia?

It works.

My grandfathers lever action rifle was registered pre WW1, I think 07 or 08 and in 20 years I've seen it used (and abused myself) I've never seen it jam once. It's just built solid.

Personally, I think the 1911 is fairly ugly, but it works.

People say the A10 warthogs is ugly too :)

[Sh0t]

They are ugly. They also work very well. That's why the Air Force tried to de-commission them.

Sexy trumps effective.

There is a long history of ugly but [more]effective being retired so that new contracts(trough-feeding) can be given out, etc.

Let me count the ways...
A-10(almost!)
A-6(long gone)
Iowa Battleship(long gone)
m-113(massive pressure to kill it, but grassroots movement to upgrade it)
m1911(gone servicewide but still kicking where units have a choice)
Huey(making a comeback as the uh-1w)
Cobra(almost killed but back and new model coming ah-1z)
m-551 tank(Dead and buried, air-droppable tank? say what?)


Probably more out there, mechanics and **** probably have a ton of stuff they could list.

[Robstafarian]

i also second the switch in caliber, but a .40 sounds more reasonable, in terms of usability and price.

What about the issues with bullet setback in .40? IIRC, cycling a round of .40 just twice causes the bullet to set back in the cartridge far enough to increase the pressure of the round to unsafe levels.

I don't imagine that soldiers are in the habit of cycling ammunition, but I also don't think that soldiers in the field need anything else to worry about.

[wetware]

But then all those army brats would hurt their wittle hands with the recoil.

What's it matter? Most of the pistol jams I saw in my time in the army were stovepipes from limp-wristing. Then when they don't know how to clear it properly they screw it up worse.

.45 is totally the way to go, we've got a lot of weapons that use it already. Just tell NATO to call it 12.something mm and quit whining.


The 1911s are a proven safe design. The main reason we're not likely to see them in the US army is that SA would make officers very very nervous. Never mind the fact that a light, crisp trigger pull improves accuracy. Never mind the fact that with modern 1911s the chances of an accidental discharge are so ridiculously low.

Plus our friends in Canada make some damn fine double stack .45s.
http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=17

[teddy_bear]

Just tell NATO to call it 12.something mm and quit whining.

11.43 mm :o