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  1. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 3:46pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Round back deadlift?

    So does anybody train these? I've never even thought about it until i read the latest issue of Fighters Only Magazine (UK publication) and to be honest i'd still be wary of doing them. As the name suggests, the back is flexed and you bend from the hips to pick up the weight.

    The article recommends using sandbags due to the fact that they mould to fit the body, thus being able to keep the weight closer to you.

    I remember reading a deadlift article on T-nation where it states that some powerlifters do the standard exercise with a bend in the thoracic spine, and that it can handle more compression compared to the lumbar region. The article i've read is not specific on this but i'd guess the same rules apply, however at this stage i don't feel as if i can isolate the bend to the one area.

    A lot of back injuries come about by people lifting incorrectly (ie with a flexed spine) and i've felt mine pulling when someone has me in a triangle etc from guard and i've gone to slam them, so i'm thinking that this exercise could help, but must obviously be approached with caution.

    The guy who wrote the article was Barry from www.grapplefit.com who i believe is an experienced strength and conditioning coach.

    So do/would any of you use this variation in your workouts?

    Can't find any vids unfortunately but will try to scan the article some time this week.
    Last edited by spirez; 6/10/2007 3:58pm at .
  2. kwoww is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 4:28pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It sounds like a great way to pull a muscle. As far as I know, your back should be FLAT.
  3. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 4:40pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote from article (in fact it's the very first line):

    This is the variation that would have pencil-necked, ectomorphic personal trainers running to their health and safety manuals to check your form
    I know a regular deadlift is meant to be performed with a neutral spine, but this variation is called a 'round back' deadlift after all.

    It's also pretty obvious that the weight would be hugely lower than a traditional d/l.

    If you've grappled i'm sure you would have found yourself in a position where your back is bent and you need to posture up. I can only see this exercise helping in that respect.
  4. Boyd is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 5:13pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This sounds like the weightlifting equivalent of diving for a keylock from within someone's guard.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

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  5. Sh0t is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 5:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: standup to ground

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rounded back good mornings are a pretty popular way of training the lower back erectors.

    Rounded back movements in deadlift form are tricky. Rounded back stiff-leg deadlifts and/or romanians are pretty common but ego has to be checked at the door to avoid a lot of potential injury.

    For training the lower back like that I would suggest:
    Rounded back good mornings supplementing regular good mornings

    45 degree extension platform movements with a rounded back. To do this properly, raise the cushion so that your hip is fixed. This turns the hyper into a erector movement much more than a hip extension movement.

    Reverse hyper machine if you can find one. Not technically as good as the above for PURE low back, but probably one of the safer ways of doing low back work and therapeutic.

    GHR - move the pad so you follow same principle as the 45 degree move.

    The floor laying "superman" move is pretty deadly, I'd stay away from it.

    Really and truly, there is no real reason to emphasize the erectors as a back extensor. They are meant to work statically and stabilize your spine and transfer force through the core. They get great work from all posterior chain work. The risks, to me, outweight the benefits of rounded back erector work.
  6. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 6:28pm

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A slightly rounded upper back shouldn't be a problem for some people. Actually I feel a lot more comfortable with a slight curb on my upper back (a small curvature, not a lot).

    Problems occur when people arch their lower backs. That's where the **** will hit the fan.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  7. Sh0t is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/10/2007 10:17pm

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     Style: standup to ground

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I believe the point of the exercise is a rounded lower back. This is what will change those movements from static erectors to dynamic erectors during hip extension or whatever.

    It can be safe, but you get more bang for your buck working the lower back statically and it's much, much safer.

    One major problem of unsafe backs tends to be lordosis caused by too-tight hip flexors. Rounded lower back exercises are much safer when that is corrected.

    Recommend McGill's books for any sizable training library: http://www.backfitpro.com/


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  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 9:21am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0t
    Well, I believe the point of the exercise is a rounded lower back. This is what will change those movements from static erectors to dynamic erectors during hip extension or whatever.
    I would imagine that applies to stiff-leg deadlifts. I would be scare shitless to round my lower back with a regular DL, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0t
    It can be safe, but you get more bang for your buck working the lower back statically and it's much, much safer.
    Yeah, supermans and lower back extensions are much safer. I never understood why people like good mornings... with heavy weights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0t
    One major problem of unsafe backs tends to be lordosis caused by too-tight hip flexors. Rounded lower back exercises are much safer when that is corrected.

    Recommend McGill's books for any sizable training library: http://www.backfitpro.com/
    Hmmmmm, I'm gonna take a look at that book.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sh0t
    Jamie Eason is a goddess.
    You sir, are a man of fine taste. :icon_thum :icon_thum :icon_thum :icon_thum
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 12:21pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cheers sh0t.

    The good mornings look like a similar movement to the stif leg d/l, except the weight is on the shoulders.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axVdu5QXyic

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axVdu5QXyic

    As for the supermans, what is it about them that you are not keen on? I do dorsal raises where the legs are kept on the floor but haven't progressed to supermans yet.
    Last edited by spirez; 6/11/2007 12:41pm at .
  10. spirez is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2007 12:35pm


     Style: BJJ/no-gi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Guys, think i found what i'm looking for, they seem to be called Zercher deadlifts. The only difference i can see between these and the article i read is that he uses a sandbag instead of a barbell.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLykbjVWcs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfLykbjVWcs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FIPMlj8DS4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FIPMlj8DS4
    Last edited by spirez; 6/11/2007 12:41pm at .
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