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  1. Maestro Nobones is offline
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    rawr

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 11:43am

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     Style: Mushin Dao, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Krav Maga bullshido from another board

    this is from an MMA thread on another board.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clean97GTI
    got a fan here.

    I don't train in any of the normal styles though. I'm doing Krav Maga training right now. Might get into fighting...I dunno. I can't use a lot of the KM techniques in an MMA fight as they are against the rules.
    how often do you spar in KM?

    how often do you practice your 'too deadly' techniques against a fully resisting opponent?

    I've never seen a KM class but heard a lot about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean97GTI
    http://www.contactcombatsystems.com <--where I train

    The individual classes (KM 1-4) teach the various techniques and moves. The more advanced you get, the more you learn. You start off with mindset and when to fight or flee. Some KM instructors teach you to destroy with extreme prejudice while others prefer to teach flee if possible.
    This is a good standpoint to have on self defense.

    My instructors attempt to teach control of the situation. Fight if you must and go until the opportunity for escape is present or until threat is gone.

    There is some sparring during most classes. The fight classes are the really hard, battering classes. I've taken more than my share of hits and throws and strikes. It's a lot of fun and takes place against resistant opponents. Various advanced techniques are practiced including defending against armed opponent(s) and multiple attackers.
    so in fight class, when you are practicing your techs, the person you go against is fully resisting letting you pull off your technique? During this period do you drill stuff like pulling the ears or wrist locks, etc?

    The "too deadly" techniques are a core part of the training. KM is not very adaptable to competition as most of the techniques teach you to disable and injure your opponent in the shortest time possible. Pride Fighting would get pretty pissed off when you broke someone's knee and ripped an ear off.
    You know, people get kicked in the knees a lot in pride, and I've yet to see anyone's break. It's a lot harder than you might think.
    Things like grabbing the guy by his ears and delivering knee strikes are common practice. You lead into that with eye gouges or breaking small joints (fingers, wrist)
    I can tell you that if someone is moving at full speed trying to attack you, there is a very, very slim percentage of chance that you can actually get ahold of their ears, or perform any sort of wrist/finger break. These are good moves in theory but very, very low percentage. In your fight class, how often do you or your more advanced classmates manage to get ahold of a wrist for a lock/break or get a firm grip on someone's ears?

    It can be very brutal. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end should one of my instructors attack me.

    One of the things that I was surprised about is that ground fighting, while taught, is taught from a different point of view. You will learn how to fight on the ground, but the goal is not to get to ground or continue the fight there. If you wind up on the ground, you need to disable your attacker quickly and get back up. You never know if he's got buddies in the area.
    Point of dominance is a good thing to have in a self defense situation, as is situational awareness.
    If you are curious, go check out a KM class in your area. Most instructors are more than willing to let you observe a class or two to decide if its right for you.
    all the KM near me seems to be more of a cardio-kickboxing sort of thing.

    Things to remember are that KM doesn't lend itself well to competition. You won't be able to use a lot of the more effective techniques in an MMA/UFC type fight. Most of them are against the rules.
    In vale tudo competition stuff like eye gouging, groin shots, etc, are allowed, but most competetors don't use it because these are not 100% fight stopping techniques. Basing your whole system off of them is generally considered shaky ground at best.

    KM doesn't take a long time to learn. The techniques are simple and effective and not flashy in the least. Watching the short videos will give you an appreciation of how brutal the fighting can be.
    The videos I see on the site convey very little, and honestly they look like 99% of the kempo demo videos I've seen. Attacker comes in with a predetermined attack, defender stops it short and the proceeds to let forth a great string of various techniques, while the attacker stands there motionless, doing nothing to defend himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean97GTI
    I don't know of any school (any style) that you learn the techniques against a resisting opponent. You don't practice them against a resisting opponent all the time. You must be able to execute them properly before attempting them against a resisting opponent. Now, I'm not saying you don't need to practice against a resisting opponent. A real opponent is a requirement if you hope to survive on the streets. Once you start getting into the higher level courses, you begin working against resisting opponents more and more. The beauty of it is that you don't have to wait a set level of time before advancing. Your instructors keep track of how you are doing and let you know when you should go on. The flexibility is great in that you can train as often as you want. They always push you to train a little more. If you go 3 days a week, they ask you why you aren't there for a fourth day or a fight class.
    The more you progress, the faster things go. Fight classes are usually full speed sparring. It is intense from the few I've gone to.

    yes, during fight class, you are going through a full speed sparring session using all the techniques you know. They try to pair each person off with another person at a similar level. They (instructors) also set up multiple opponent sparring as well.

    You don't just lead off by trying to grab someones ears. You would use such a thing when you get in closer and start trying to tie them up. If you were running at me, I wouldn't try to grab your ears. I'd try to slow you down and provide a barrage of strikes you'd have to run through in order to get to me. At that point, I can execute any number of things depending on how you and I are oriented. It all depends on each fight. KM doesn't use any set movements or kata. You adapt your attack to the person attacking you. Obivously going for a wrist lock isn't going to work if they are constantly kicking and keeping their hands guarded.

    Krav Maga isn't solely based on eye gouges or groin shots. These are simply a few techniques that are available and are taught. The idea is to do a large amount of damage in any way possible in order to stop the attack. If that means landing knee strikes and gouging eyes, so be it. If it can be accomplished with a flurry of punches while on your back, then thats how it goes. Flexibility is the key.

    The videos are a little corny. Thats why I suggested going and observing a real KM class. Some of the schools focus way too much time on aerobics. You must be weary of these. Observe a fight class if you can.

    oh, knee shots can be very devastating. It all depends on the opportunity. I'd probably skip attacking a knee against a skilled opponent. Some drunk slob in a bar is another story.
    (later while we're making grappling = gay jokes)

    Quote Originally Posted by NHB_GnP
    that is undeniably homoesque

    Next time use one of the hot chicks for an uki and demonstrate how to lay in someone's guard while making humping motions
    "Now see, to pass guard we pin the hips by placing our hands gently on the inner thigh, then base out and bury your head between your opponent's breasts. *muffled* now we lay here a bit and just enjoy it..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Clean97GTI
    Damn, I just break the guys fingers and jump away. Wish my style was stylish and left my opponent in good fighting shape.
    that's hilarious. Try that on a BJJ guy sometime, see how it works out for ya.

    -------

    all the prerequisites are there.... sounds like BS to me!
    I think it was two ninjas taped together, to make one GIANT NINJA!!!!
  2. Maestro Nobones is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 12:18pm

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     Style: Mushin Dao, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.contactcombatsystems.com/...womenssd_1.avi

    here is one of the video techniques, where a guy TRIES to demonstrate an upa...except he does nothing to deal with the guy in mount's arms, and of course, the guy getting rolled does nothing to stop the other dude from just standing up once he's in guard position.
    I think it was two ninjas taped together, to make one GIANT NINJA!!!!
  3. ImAlrdyNum is offline
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    aahhh...the colors

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 12:31pm

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     Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I took Krav Maga for a year, and we had a full contact fight class every friday. Depends on the school. Krav is a self defense system, nothing more. It's not a fighting style, and therefore is not good training for MMA, and most Krav students know this(the smart ones do). Besides, it's basically just boxing, muay thai, and bastardized BJJ.
    Last edited by ImAlrdyNum; 7/01/2005 12:34pm at .
    Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
  4. Maestro Nobones is offline
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    rawr

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 12:36pm

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     Style: Mushin Dao, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it was two ninjas taped together, to make one GIANT NINJA!!!!
  5. ImAlrdyNum is offline
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    aahhh...the colors

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 12:47pm

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     Style: Judo & Sub Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Old news guy, everybody knows Krav is ****. No need for another thread on it.
    Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that kickboxing is commonly known as fighting while grappling simply isn't. - Osiris
  6. Maestro Nobones is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 12:58pm

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     Style: Mushin Dao, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    come on, you gotta love the "break his fingers and jump away" guard pass!!!
    I think it was two ninjas taped together, to make one GIANT NINJA!!!!
  7. Seraphim is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 1:02pm


     Style: Karate, Sadism, Violence.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro Nobones

    Weak.
  8. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 1:06pm

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     Style: In Transition

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you can't even make the DEMONSTRATION look effective, then there is no hope for the technique ever working in real life.

    PL
  9. Samfoo is offline
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    Knee + Head = Black Eye * 2

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 1:10pm

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     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ImAlrdyNum
    Old news guy, everybody knows Krav is ****. No need for another thread on it.
    Ahmen.
  10. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2005 1:13pm

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     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know I'm gonna get rimmed for this. But where did he, Clean97GTI, mention anything that would be considered bullshido. He seems to have a very level head. He did not come on and say his techniques were deadly .Did he? I didn't read that anywhere. In fact he came out and actually said and I quote " KM is not very adaptable to competition ".He's being very honest in my opinion.

    There are striking styles. There are grappling styles. But Krav-maga is a self-defence style. Honestly the only bad thing we can say about Krav-mag is that there may not be very honest instructors. Or instructors who embellish there style.Perhasp if you do 2 years of Kick-boxing.2 years of JJ or judo and you may have a good basis for self-defence.

    Just to let you know I've been doing 5 years of karate and I just don't feel confient in situations taht may involve a weapon.And a style like KM might be just what someone need for that sor t of situation.

    If I could find a good instructor in KM I would probably do it.Who here would not want to try it out?Comme on.

    Let the rimming begin.
    Last edited by CanucKyokushin; 7/01/2005 1:18pm at .
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