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  1. Kato_1 is offline

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    Jan 2007
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by thecheeseman
    Talking about your wife and kids and showing how old and "experienced in life" you are doesn't give you the privilege to talk **** down to someone who needs sympathy. A MA cult is something you have to experice for yourself to truly understand. like diarhea.

    Most parents don't know anything about any Martial arts and don't feel the need to investigate. They think it's just like the movies. Sometimes kids are afraid to complain to their parents because they begged them to go in the first place. Sometimes the parents paid a lot of money and wouldn't let their kids quit. Sometimes even kids feel the pressure and fear from these BS instructors. They don't fight well but they are good at intimidation.

    anyways undrcovrbrothr i give you props for have the courage to quit. Don't give up on MA. I would suggest go back to that school in the future and tell your message to everyone there. I would bet there are people still there whose lives are screwed over worse than yours, and it would be selfish of you not to. I know it will be hard to go back. I went back to my old school and told the new guy the truth. Yes, if you even set foot in that old school you would probably piss your pants, i would know. But once you have trained good skills You won't be scared anymore.
    Did you even read my posts? I definitely sympathize with undrcvr, I just don't think that the blame can be placed on just the instructor.

    His parents were a key contributor to him being sucked into a cult-like scenario. They obviously didn't pay attention to what the kid was doing and left it to West Wind to do as they please.

    It has nothing to do with knowing anything about martial arts, and everything to do with supervising what your kids do.

    My message is and was: Do not simply blame West Wind. Look at and into why your parents allowed it to continue.
  2. undrcovrbrothr is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kato_1
    Here's a thought: How about the parents actually do their job instead of dropping off their kids and letting some else be their parent? West Wind may be a rip-off, I don't know who they are, but that doesn't absolve the parents of THEIR responsbility to look out for the well-being of their children. My kids are involved in different sports and my wife or I ALWAYS know what's going on.

    The only one without any fault here IS the victim, i.e. the child. PARENTS are the ones who are supposed to look out for them. 11 years? I can't believe the parents were so obilivious they didn't know what was happening for 11 years.

    How were the parents supposed to know? Stop just dropping off your kids like it's a fucking babysitting service and actually watch the classes. Ask questions, Be involved.

    You must be one of those "it's society's job to raise the child not the parents" kind of guys.
    You could ask how my parents were involved, or what they thought about West Wind before insulting them like that.

    To clarify, staying in West Wind was all my idea. By no means did my parents "drop me off like it's a babysitting service". My mother, who was more outspoken about her feelings on WW, loved the place in it's early years, but as time went on she began to hate it and what it did to me. I fought her to stay there because I couldn't just turn back, not after so many years of dedication. Why did I fight for it so badly? My dedication left me without many other activities, let alone sports that I was talented at, at a time in life when kids were honing their skills in soccer, basketball, etc. and there was no catching up for me. So while other kids were going to go on to win champsionships and be MVP's in high school, if I quit I'd have nothing, but if I got my Black Belt I'd have something. So I fought to stay, my parents weren't oblivious to the end of the golden years. My fault, not their's, so leave them out of this.
  3. Kato_1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by undrcovrbrothr
    You could ask how my parents were involved, or what they thought about West Wind before insulting them like that.

    To clarify, staying in West Wind was all my idea. By no means did my parents "drop me off like it's a babysitting service". My mother, who was more outspoken about her feelings on WW, loved the place in it's early years, but as time went on she began to hate it and what it did to me. I fought her to stay there because I couldn't just turn back, not after so many years of dedication. Why did I fight for it so badly? My dedication left me without many other activities, let alone sports that I was talented at, at a time in life when kids were honing their skills in soccer, basketball, etc. and there was no catching up for me. So while other kids were going to go on to win champsionships and be MVP's in high school, if I quit I'd have nothing, but if I got my Black Belt I'd have something. So I fought to stay, my parents weren't oblivious to the end of the golden years. My fault, not their's, so leave them out of this.
    WRONG. As a child, the parent has the ultimate responsbility. Period. You can fight, but that doesn't absolve your parents from their responsibility. I cannot imagine saying "oh well, my 11 year old son really wants it so HE must be right." I make the final decision, not him.

    That doesn't mean West Wind is innocent. Sounds like they definitely duped a lot of kids and a lot of parents, but don't dump all this completely on the dojo. Your parents have an equal share in "stealing your childhood" to use your own words.
  4. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:20pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kato_1
    Here's a thought: How about the parents actually do their job instead of dropping off their kids and letting some else be their parent? West Wind may be a rip-off, I don't know who they are, but that doesn't absolve the parents of THEIR responsbility to look out for the well-being of their children. My kids are involved in different sports and my wife or I ALWAYS know what's going on.

    The only one without any fault here IS the victim, i.e. the child. PARENTS are the ones who are supposed to look out for them. 11 years? I can't believe the parents were so obilivious they didn't know what was happening for 11 years.

    How were the parents supposed to know? Stop just dropping off your kids like it's a fucking babysitting service and actually watch the classes. Ask questions, Be involved.

    You must be one of those "it's society's job to raise the child not the parents" kind of guys.
    Hey man, I raise my son, so go **** yourself and your warriors of god Dojo, okay?
  5. thecheeseman is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:27pm


     Style: Karate, chang quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey Kato i apologize, i thought you said it's the child's fault.

    undrcovrbrthr, there's more in sports than winning a championship. You could've just quit and played sports for fun.
    Sadly your school had tricked you into training for rings and ceremonies and belts. Now you've learned something and can go on with your life.
    Last edited by thecheeseman; 6/03/2007 8:32pm at .
  6. undrcovrbrothr is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:38pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kato_1
    WRONG. As a child, the parent has the ultimate responsbility. Period. You can fight, but that doesn't absolve your parents from their responsibility. I cannot imagine saying "oh well, my 11 year old son really wants it so HE must be right." I make the final decision, not him.

    That doesn't mean West Wind is innocent. Sounds like they definitely duped a lot of kids and a lot of parents, but don't dump all this completely on the dojo. Your parents have an equal share in "stealing your childhood" to use your own words.
    I think this a little extreme. It wasn't like my parents sent me to take piano lessons with a child molester. West Wind did have positive aspects as much as people here like to bash it. At the end of the day, even if you all don't think my "Black Belt" means jack sh**, I had to go through a lot to get there, and I learned a lot about myself and life along the way. Sure, WW became more and more unscrupulous along the way, but the core principles of what I studied were good things for a kid to learn. Sure, maybe my parents should have pulled me out and put me in a "real" dojo, but it seems like you guys might forget that there's actually blood, sweat and tears spilled on those mats, even if it's not squeeky clean pure perfect MA straight from the Orient, I still had to work my butt off to get anywhere. And my parents couldn't just negate all the hard work that I put in if I really wanted to fight through it. Once again, my fault, not theirs.
  7. undrcovrbrothr is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 8:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by thecheeseman

    undrcovrbrthr, there's more in sports than winning a championship. You could've just quit and played sports for fun.
    Sadly your school had tricked you into training for rings and ceremonies and belts. Now you've learned something and can go on with your life.
    Although, you must admit, it's more fun to play a sport when you're not leagues behind everyone else. Imagine running a race where everyone else is sprinting like madmen, but for some reason, you're restricted to a brisk walk. But hey! If you stick with it, you might even get to jog! Not to mention, you've only got oh so many years to play team sports if you're not going to be able to go pro. So even if you start to pick up speed, the race is over before you know it.
  8. thecheeseman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 9:09pm


     Style: Karate, chang quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I guess that would be a problem for you since it sounds like your friends don't play sports. I don't mean playing in a jock team, i mean playing in a local gym or in your backyard or something.
    If you lost your social life because of West Wind, find a hobby or a club. I work out because i feel empty inside :icon_lol:
    Last edited by thecheeseman; 6/03/2007 9:15pm at .
  9. undrcovrbrothr is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 9:20pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by thecheeseman
    I guess that would be a problem for you since it sounds like your friends don't play sports. I don't mean playing in a jock team, i mean playing in a local gym or in your backyard or something.
    If you lost your social life because of West Wind, find a hobby or a club. I work out because i feel empty inside :icon_lol:
    Oh I have a social life and hobbies haha. Running is my sport. I'd almost forgotten WW.
  10. Kato_1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 9:40pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    Hey man, I raise my son, so go **** yourself and your warriors of god Dojo, okay?
    Interesting. Who said you weren't raising your son? Have a little guilt happening?

    Do you and I know each other outside of Bullshido? Your comment has other insuations.
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