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  1. kwoww is offline
    kwoww's Avatar

    poser

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    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley / Rochester
    Posts
    1,986

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 5:22pm


     Style: punching bag / crew jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You should have become an instructor and then left. That would have been fun indeed.

    But seriously, that's so messed up I don't know where to begin.
  2. thecheeseman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2005
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 5:57pm


     Style: Karate, chang quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally I was glad you left that place. like you said, the place was good before it sold out. I am sad there is no way for corrupt MA schools to change their ways. if you stay and try to make some changes, the higher ups would kick you out. if people start leaving, only the douchebag instructors would stay and the school stays like that till it closes.
  3. undrcovrbrothr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 5:58pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah I just remembered another juicy tidbit.

    So part of becoming a Black Belt at West Wind is becoming a part of "The Order of the Cobra". Tradition said, that after your test, you go home, get washed up, get classy, come back to the dojo and go to a fancy dinner with all the Black Belts. There you received your diploma and partook in a special ceremony. They had this giant cup they called "The Chalice" that they would fill with some sort of herbal brew and everyone would partake of it to gain some sort of unspecified health benefit. But the part that I really looked forward to was the ring. All West Wind Black Belts had these giant rings, much like class rings and championship rings for athletes, but a bit beefier. Very nice quality, and would leave a NASTY mark if you got into a scrape.

    Anyhow, I trained for my Black Belt, and tested with two other students. After our test there was some excuse as to why we couldn't have a dinner. I thought at least they would give me my diploma and ring. How wrong I was. They used the two other symbols of my achievement against me. Now before anyone replies with anything about how "the Black Belt is in the heart, not in the belt/ring/diploma! If you were a true martial artist..." I just wanted them because I'd been told for 11 years that this is what you get when you go through hell and back, and they owed it to me. They kept trying to give me the guilt trip me with them. They kept telling me that they weren't sure about me, that since I was so young, they weren't sure if i was truely loyal and they couldn't give me my ring yet. They sized me for one on 4 different occasions. They kept telling me they'd present our rings in about a month at an event. But no, they kept saying they needed to test me and make sure I was a true Black Belt. By the time I left I was so fed up with the crap I didn't think about the ring.

    A few months later I saw one of my test-mates at the store. They told me they got fed up with the crap too and left. And then they told me that our other test-mate had received their ring and she hadn't. The one who received their ring was favored throughout the whole process so it didn't suprise me that they got it. But I was furious that they probably had the rings the whole time, and just wanted to get some free labor by guilt tripping me into teaching in order to get my ring. I can't remember if i got my diploma or not, I might have and just tucked it away somewhere so I don't have to be reminded of West Wind.

    more to come, if i can remember some other things.
  4. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

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    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,935

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 6:26pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as sparring goes, in the 1970's through the 1980's, they sparred full contact with Kendo gear on. It was mostly a lot of hay-makers and windmill punches, as the gear was heavy and kept you off balance. I can't say what they did after that, as the last person I spoke to about training there was in 1991? 1992? I can't remember. MY stay there was shorter, but pretty traumatic and cult like. IT was like a Ponzi scheme- one day a guy was a blue belt (2-3 years training) the next, he was an instructor. I could see West Wind turning people off too martial arts completely, so your story is not surprising.
  5. thecheeseman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jun 2005
    Posts
    55

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 6:30pm


     Style: Karate, chang quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hey undrcovrbrothr , why did you choose to go into westwind in the first place?
  6. undrcovrbrothr is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jun 2007
    Posts
    16

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 7:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: N/A

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by thecheeseman
    hey undrcovrbrothr , why did you choose to go into westwind in the first place?
    Well I found it back when it was a good school. There were, and are, a LOT of "McDojo"s in my area.
  7. Kato_1 is offline

    Featherweight

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    Jan 2007
    Posts
    57

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 7:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think you have misplaced your anger.

    Where the hell were your PARENTS in all this "cult-like" behaviour?

    THEY are the ones charged with ensuring you receive a proper upbringing.
    THEY are the ones who drove you to all of these classes.
    THEY were the ones paying for all of these lessons you attended.
    THEY were the ones taking you to all these special events.

    No one forced your parents to take you there. If anyone stole your childhood it was your parents, not West Wind.
  8. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,935

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 7:25pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kato_1
    I think you have misplaced your anger.

    Where the hell were your PARENTS in all this "cult-like" behaviour?

    THEY are the ones charged with ensuring you receive a proper upbringing.
    THEY are the ones who drove you to all of these classes.
    THEY were the ones paying for all of these lessons you attended.
    THEY were the ones taking you to all these special events.

    No one forced your parents to take you there. If anyone stole your childhood it was your parents, not West Wind.
    How the **** were his parents to know that West Wind was bullshit? They do a great job of snowing people. The place is like a cult- you're one of those blame the victim kind of guys. When he was first starting out, he probably said "this is great mom and dad!". Dude, don't blame your parents, West Wind is a rip-off.
  9. Kato_1 is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    57

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 7:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    How the **** were his parents to know that West Wind was bullshit? They do a great job of snowing people. The place is like a cult- you're one of those blame the victim kind of guys. When he was first starting out, he probably said "this is great mom and dad!". Dude, don't blame your parents, West Wind is a rip-off.
    Here's a thought: How about the parents actually do their job instead of dropping off their kids and letting some else be their parent? West Wind may be a rip-off, I don't know who they are, but that doesn't absolve the parents of THEIR responsbility to look out for the well-being of their children. My kids are involved in different sports and my wife or I ALWAYS know what's going on.

    The only one without any fault here IS the victim, i.e. the child. PARENTS are the ones who are supposed to look out for them. 11 years? I can't believe the parents were so obilivious they didn't know what was happening for 11 years.

    How were the parents supposed to know? Stop just dropping off your kids like it's a fucking babysitting service and actually watch the classes. Ask questions, Be involved.

    You must be one of those "it's society's job to raise the child not the parents" kind of guys.
  10. thecheeseman is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    55

    Posted On:
    6/03/2007 7:53pm


     Style: Karate, chang quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Talking about your wife and kids and showing how old and "experienced in life" you are doesn't give you the privilege to talk **** down to someone who needs sympathy. A MA cult is something you have to experice for yourself to truly understand. like diarhea.

    Most parents don't know anything about any Martial arts and don't feel the need to investigate. They think it's just like the movies. Sometimes kids are afraid to complain to their parents because they begged them to go in the first place. Sometimes the parents paid a lot of money and wouldn't let their kids quit. Sometimes even kids feel the pressure and fear from these BS instructors. They don't fight well but they are good at intimidation.

    anyways undrcovrbrothr i give you props for have the courage to quit. Don't give up on MA. I would suggest go back to that school in a few years and tell your message to everyone there. I would bet there are people still there whose lives are screwed over worse than yours, and it would be selfish of you not to. I know it will be hard to go back. I went back to my old school and told the new guy the truth. Yes, if you even set foot in that old school now you would probably be shaking and sweating. But once you have trained good skills You won't be scared anymore.
    Last edited by thecheeseman; 6/03/2007 8:08pm at .
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