Kansas: Kuk Sool Won?

**kwoww** · Posted On: 8/22/2007 12:59pm

Yeah but if you want that go be a cheerleader. Seriously. Some of those flips they do are absolutely ridiculous, and make Wushu dudes look like pansies.

Originally Posted by RegularJoe

Wow man, Kuk Sool has been beaten to death on this forum..I dident even know it existed a month ago, now I'm here and I'm already tired of hearing about it.
Use the search function people.

The search function doesn't take kindly to 3-letter words.

It also happens to be a fascinating martial art to study because it's so damn weird. Hell, I wanna take up KSW just for the hell of experiencing it.

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 8/22/2007 1:27pm

I'd probably walk out after some cocksucker told me I had to bow to a picture of their still living "grandmaster".

Seriously, revering someone who's dead is one thing (a la Aikido. Do they even go as far as bowing to his picture though?), but that is utterly fucking ridiculous.

**Rhea_IR** · Posted On: 8/22/2007 5:59pm

Seems like KSW isn't that revered around here. Can someone post the links to previous threads here, in one place? I'd be interested to see them, as there is a club where I work, and they're not too happy for me to watch, and dodge questions when I have any. The owner once even tried to accuse me of stealing prospective students when I gave out fliers detailing ALL martial arts at the centre to anyone who enquired about their class.

**jjytmk** · Posted On: 8/24/2007 4:52pm

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

I'd probably walk out after some cocksucker told me I had to bow to a picture of their still living "grandmaster".

Seriously, revering someone who's dead is one thing (a la Aikido. Do they even go as far as bowing to his picture though?), but that is utterly fucking ridiculous.

This seems like more of a person problem to me. You must not be very open or understanding of traditions from other parts of the world. They bow to eachother (like, two people facing eachother) in many parts of the world.

**SandK2** · Posted On: 8/26/2007 5:23pm

I used to own a Kuk Sool Won school - where do I start? I was already in American Karate for a number of years, and thought I wanted to start anew in a "Traditional Style." I jumped in head first and took as gospel all they told me. Five years was all I could take. "KukSaNim" as he calls himself (Suh In Hyuk- the "Grandmaster") is a liar and a total scam artist.

Kuk Sool Won is nothing more than Hapkido and a few forms that he altered from Hung Gar Kung Fu forms he learned from some one before he came to America. If you don't believe me - check it out for yourself. I was told this by people that knew him in Korea. Add a few weapons forms he says are "hundreds of years old'" - he made them up - that makes him how old?!

I went on a couple of their trips to Korea and what I found there did not match all the B.S. I was told by him and his "Masters" of how big and authentic Kuk Sool Won is. In Korea there was only 1 little school in Pusan run by his brother In Sun Suh who hates him and is like a Korean mafioso himself. A total dirt bag. One night there I had to break up a fight between a drunk In Sun Suh in a fight he picked with some chubby older Korean man. "Chief Master" was on the bottom - and he wasn't winning.

In fact, if they are the "Official" martial art of Korea," why aren't there any Koreans in the entire organization other than his sons, a couple of his brothers, and one married into his family? If I'm not mistaken, all of his sons have different mothers. He once came onto a mother from my martial arts school when they were alone and she fought him off. I wonder how his then wife would have reacted to that if I had told her.

If you are a follower and need someone to follow and worship then Kuk Sool Won is for you. It is nothing more than a cult - bowing to his picture before and after every class, required devotion to him and his senior followers, & letting him fleece you of your $.

Since my departure from Kuk Sool Won, I've run into a lot of ex-KukSoolWonners who all have their own stories to tell - many way more interesting than mine.

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 8/27/2007 12:46am

Originally Posted by Lu Tze

I'd probably walk out after some cocksucker told me I had to bow to a picture of their still living "grandmaster".

Seriously, revering someone who's dead is one thing (a la Aikido. Do they even go as far as bowing to his picture though?), but that is utterly fucking ridiculous.

Yes, I've seen it first hand. I've also seen it in Judo with Kano. This is in regards to the dead masters. With regards to the still living masters, look no further then my style field. Although I can't find it anymore, I remember reading one of the requirements for being an offical Gracie Barra school is to have a picture of Carlos Gracie Sr. and Carlos Gracie Jr on the wall, centered, and you had to bow to it. For the life of me, I cannot find it on their website anymore. Looks like that has been rewritten. Obviously, my word doesn't mean enough but I'm sure there are some other Gracie Barra members or even people who read the same thing as me who can confirm it.

**averykess** · Posted On: 8/27/2007 8:16am

Here is my problem, 4 schools, no choice:

Kuk Sool Won Baytown - McDojo w/ afterschool day care. I understand the day-care aspect, you bring more money in and possibly attract more students. Income is part of keeping a school open.

TKS martial arts - Owner, founder, head instructor divorced his wife, she kept the business. His assistant instructor changed his last name (Cantu to Yamashita) and is now the head instructor. Also has an afterschool babysitting service.

Tae Kwon Do Plus - in the mall, major McDojo. More patches on the uniforms than Jeff Gordon.

Mont Belvieu/Baytown ATA - TKD school that keeps moving locations. They never look open.

+++++++++++++++++++

I chose KSW Baytown - They had the best hours of operation Mon-Thur 3:30-9:00pm, plus a Saturday Morning class. The techniques aren't as dead as I'd heard they are at other KSW schools, but it really depends on which student you are paired up with (I had a brown belt complain that I was holding her wrist too hard during wrist grab techniques). They have brown belts that can't kick above waist level. 95% of the youth students (under 16) are sloppy, unfocused, and inadequate; the bad ones look like they are sleepwalking through the forms.

Light contact sparring and very little of it. Sparring is not required. I refuse to take part as long as it is like this. I am not going to spend the money on foot, hand, head padding and a cup and mouth guard for an activity that requires them for insurance purposes but are wholly unnecessary due to the timid nature of the activity. Of all the black belts, only the head instructor carries himself like a fighter.

Way too many Cobra Kai (a la Karate Kid) style challenge-response recitations. The bowing is excessive (start of class has minimum 5 bows - US Flag, Korean Flag, Photo of Grandmaster, Black Belts, Beginning of Class, add another if the head instructor is there).

It is a decent workout for fitness, but I sincerely doubt the self-defense and combat effectiveness. I've studied Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, and fencing in the past. Right now, all I hope to get out of KSW is flexibility and fitness. When I achieve those, I'll likely move on to something else. I want a traditional school, but I want a school that is serious about the martial aspect of martial arts. I don't want an MMA school; I've seen too many people who were MMA fighters -- where the only 'style' they have ever studied was MMA -- who were just thugs.

Recently,I found Baytown Chayon-Ryu (actually in Highlands), a branch school of Kim Soo Karate. When my 6 month KSW contract is up, I will take a look at them.

**Wolf** · Posted On: 8/27/2007 9:57am

Originally Posted by Rhea_IR

Seems like KSW isn't that revered around here. Can someone post the links to previous threads here, in one place? I'd be interested to see them, as there is a club where I work, and they're not too happy for me to watch, and dodge questions when I have any. The owner once even tried to accuse me of stealing prospective students when I gave out fliers detailing ALL martial arts at the centre to anyone who enquired about their class.

Threads:
--------------------
Before my conversion (and probably the longest thread on the subject here):
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44776

Another thread of mine:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51050

Most recent thread:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57403

Articles:
--------------------
Bullshido.com (consumer reports style, quick article): http://www.bullshido.com/articles/ku...rtial-art.html

Bullshido.org (wiki type article):
http://www.bullshido.org/martialarts/Kuk_Sool

**kid_1412** · Posted On: 8/28/2007 7:50am

china,s.korea,malaysia,japan=good place to study martial arts
USA,canada,argentina,zimbabwe=bad place to study martial arts
(i guess, wanna add the list?)

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 8/28/2007 9:47am

Hahahaha.

I would think the USA has some of the best MMA gyms in the world. I'd still pick Russia over anywhere on that list though, and you couldn't fucking pay me to train half the **** they do China (unless it was sanda).