what do you guys think of wing chun

9chambers · Posted On: 9/24/2002 6:13pm

&gt;William Cheung may have fought a few times but the &gt;real WC fighter from his generation was Wong Shun &gt;Long.

so? I didn't say he was my idol. I just said I have a little respect for him .. more than I do for Emin which is almost none. Will isn't on my top ten cool guys list. Relax.
(I don't actually have a list like this at all in case you are wondering, heh)

&gt;William Cheung challenged anyone in the Wing Chun &gt;world to fight him any time, any place, Emin
&gt;showed up. There was no stage area, it was not a
&gt;demonstration. Cheung was ostensibly there to
&gt;teach.

Okay, the area of the basketball where he was talking in front of the people who were sitting on the bleechers. (same thing) I think Will challenged anyone to a match or a duel .. not to bum rush him while he is trying to give a speech.

There is a formal and respectful way of doing things in the martial arts. A sudden sneak attack gives you an advantage so it doesn't prove anything if you win. Sure Will should have always been ready to defend himself against a mugger that preys on speakers during speeches .. but come on, its not like Emin beat him in a fair fight.

That being said, its not like I care much about either guy.

&gt;I've ask Sifu Emin about this event and he told
&gt;me that one thing that pissed him off even more.
&gt;He went to the seminar and started training like
&gt;he was a student, and purposely did the movements
&gt;as awkwardly and incorrect as possible.
&gt;William Cheung told him he was doing it perfect.

yeeha

&gt;There are things a lot weaker than this, like
&gt;maybe spitting on people in competitions or
&gt;stepping on them after the fact. Who would
&gt;do that?

I wouldn't know.

&gt;&gt; Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643

**Little Idea** · Posted On: 9/25/2002 1:20am

'There is a formal and respectful way of doing things in the martial arts.'

Oh Puhleeeze. . .Then what the **** are you doing on this forum?

'A sudden sneak attack gives you an advantage so it doesn't prove anything if you win.'

If you consider standing right in front of you with a piece of paper you published and telling you I want to kick your ass a sudden sneak attack, I hope to hell you never meet up with DJ's guy that is out looking for raisinet money, cause that would just be uncalled for and disrespectful.

'Sure Will should have always been ready to defend himself against a mugger that preys on speakers during speeches .. but come on'

What the ****? You talk like you were there. Speeches? I thought he was teaching a class? Speeches are for academics and politicians. He can challenged 'anyone, anytime', but god forbid don't interupt a fucking speech.

'its not like Emin beat him in a fair fight.'

Whatever that means, at least you like Miyamoto, so I'll have to give you some credit.

**kungfumaniac** · Posted On: 9/25/2002 1:52am

Before William Cheung was beaten up by Emin, he was really considered to be the toughest man in the Wing Chun clan. Wong Shun Leung was once beaten up so badly by Cheung in a chi-sau match and it was film in 8-mm. In speaking of Wong, although he was considered to be a great fighter, mostly due to the fame of Bruce Lee, he was nothing but a piece of crap! People in the western martial arts world often cheated by his students by boasting how great Wong was in those "talk-hand" matches. The truth is, Wong had only fought in one open Kung Fu tournament in 1957 in Taiwan, and was knocked out in the 1st round! He couldn't even walked out of the ring and needed to be carried out by a stretcher. After that, he was named "Stretcher Wong" by the Hong Kong Kung Fu community.

**JohnPaul** · Posted On: 9/25/2002 4:47am

hahaha
You are from Wa Shan!

**bncwd** · Posted On: 9/25/2002 7:08am

You guys are really obsessed with this lineage / different branches (WT/WC/VT)/ german incident thing, aren't you?

Here we should speak of the art (remember the first question was "what do you think about WC). You have had the inputs from people doing it, if you don't believe why don't you just try it and make your opinion on the art?

9chambers · Posted On: 9/26/2002 3:56am

Little Idea,

&gt;If you consider standing right in front of you
&gt;with a piece of paper you published and telling
&gt;you I want to kick your ass a sudden sneak attack

All is fair in love and war but not in boxing matches. When you challenge someone to a fair fight to prove that you are a better fighter than them, then you have set it up so neither of you has an unfair advantage. Its a fair fight or it proves nothing.

&gt;What the ****? You talk like you were there.
&gt;Speeches? I thought he was teaching a class?

When I have gone to classes in college, there is usually a guy in front speaking or lecturing. Cheung was demonstrating as a guest in a basketball gym. Anyway, I'll admit that he should have been ready. Who would go to demonstrate martial arts and not be prepared to fight .. whatever. Fine, he was being a lazy ass.

&gt;Speeches are for academics and politicians. He
&gt;challenged 'anyone, anytime', but god forbid don't &gt;interupt a fucking speech.

He challenged them to a duel or a fair fight. I am sure he didn't say that anyone could come over and pounce on him in his sleep and slit his throat for raisinet money.

&gt;I hope to hell you never meet up with DJ's guy
&gt;that is out looking for raisinet money, cause
&gt;that would just be uncalled for and disrespectful.

All is fair in love and war but not in boxing matches or formal duels. When you challenge someone to a fair fight to prove that you are a better fighter than them then you have set it up so neither of you has an unfair advantage ~ or it proves nothing.

&gt;What the ****? You talk like you were there.
&gt;Speeches? I thought he was teaching a class?

You really should read Will's version of the story. Its right here on McDojo.com. You can find it here:

http://www.mcdojo.com/article_read.asp?id=52

Here is a quote:

* When I started the second sort of technique drill, he came over again, and I noticed there's about 10-15 people walking behind and around him. And as soon as he came up, they went and formed a circle around us. And he said, "I want to fight you now." And I said, "Well, that's different. You said you wanted to spar and now you want to fight." I said, "Let's do it after class." And he began mumbling something, and I said, "Look, you know, I granted you the fight after the class. And strictly speaking, you're not even in my seniority." So I walked away, but I knew he more or less was going to try something. So after I walked away, the third step he rushed in and threw a round punch with his right arm."

.. sounds like a sucker punch to me.

Honestly, I don't care enough about this to download the video of the fight again but .. if I am right it starts as the fight has already begun. I wonder why they don't show the beggining of the fight.

I am not saying Will is the king of fighters, I am just saying that wonder boy Emin didn't prove a thing in that fight. I really don't give a crap about either one of them myself.

&gt;&gt; Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643

**kungfumaniac** · Posted On: 9/30/2002 4:22am

The following site contains clips demonstrated by Yip Man's students.
http://gongsau.isportsdot.com/

**bncwd** · Posted On: 9/30/2002 4:55am

Well, this is the definitve demonstration that lineage does not matter....

**jeffgord** · Posted On: 10/03/2002 3:46am

I trained in chuengs wing chun for about a year when i was younger.
It all seemed pretty cool and scientific.

But I have found(as with most trad martial arts) all the "science" falls apart when someone is belting you in the face.
I think most "stylized" MA's are good for a few moves at the start of the fight, then it becomes a brawl.
If you move ranges,(say into a clinch) then you can start your moves again, but it aint never like it looks in the demos.
And thats the big problem, most training is just like doing a freaking demo...block , punch , twist etc and the "bad guy" falls down.

A tough wingchun man who can throw good punches and is aggressive may be a good fighter, but i'd like to see just how much of what he is doing is "wing chun" after the first few blows.

If most wing chun people trained the way Thai or BJJ fighters do, it would be time much better spent.
And if they did, you might find that much of the "wing chuness" (a new word!) is dropped.

Edited by - jeffgord on October 03 2002 08:20:34

**SLJ** · Posted On: 10/03/2002 4:05am

That's one of the best posts I've seen.

Quote:
"I think most "stylized" MA's are good for a few moves at the start of the fight, then it becomes a brawl"

That is exactly what I try to tell people, I can only see WC being good when you use a pre-emptive attack. ie. a fast eye poke straight away before the guy knows what happened. But if you missed and the guy closes the distance and starts to grapple the pure WC guy is in deep ****. The Boztepe / Cheung video demonstrates this. (sorry to use that one again but it is an interesting clip)

Edited by - SLJ on October 03 2002 04:08:30