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  1. #201

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ksennin View Post
    People will hold on to their fallacy of investment.

    Yesterday a karate guy I know dropped by my friend's MMA place for a joint training session. The guy has begun to train grappling and round up his game for MMA style, and he is a very strong explosive fighter, though overweight like the stereotypical krotty instructor. I was doing pad work with a student and krotty guy walked over to correct him saying he did not need to punch through the pad, that just an explosive hit and pull back was enough...

    This may just be me here but I find it faith rude to start correcting people when you're performing in a style a style that you're not familiar with. If I was the instructor he'd be taken to one side and had a word with. Nothing too harsh but the general "this isn't karate mate, could you perform the drills as we are teaching them thank you?"

    If he'd disagreed or kept pushing the karate crap I'd probably ask him to leave. This isn't even a style versus style.debate at that point. You come to learn MMA then shut the **** up and learn MMA.

  2. #202

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovvolf View Post
    This may just be me here but I find it faith rude to start correcting people when you're performing in a style a style that you're not familiar with. If I was the instructor he'd be taken to one side and had a word with. Nothing too harsh but the general "this isn't karate mate, could you perform the drills as we are teaching them thank you?"

    If he'd disagreed or kept pushing the karate crap I'd probably ask him to leave. This isn't even a style versus style.debate at that point. You come to learn MMA then shut the **** up and learn MMA.
    Oh, sure, I found it rude. It pissed me off quite a bit, honestly. And that is why instead of peacefully making the least of it, and just ignoring it, I behaved rudely myself and just stated out loud that that advice was nonsense, and that karate has punch-thru, too, making the distinction between keage and kekomi dynamics for different purposes (which he dismissed). But the guy stuck to his guns no matter what, and everyone seemed scared we would actually come to real blows over it. I sugar-coated it for him saying that if he was a top-tier karate champion of course he would feel likely to dominate the low-tier local boxers, but that he may be an outlier, blah, blah. Yet he refused to let me save face for him and stuck to his karate>boxing stance.
    Honestly, if I was not in a terrible physical state these days I may have asked him to put on gloves and test it out full out. I challenged him to go fight a local kickboxer, Wilmer Fernandez, who had recently participated and lost in The Ultimate Fighter LatinAmerica, and he made excuses.

    The funny thing is that I know his teacher, I trained for years alongside him, and despite his being 30 pounds heavier than me, I once nearly dropped him with a single hook the one time we tried sparring with boxing gloves. Guy had to go lean on a wall for balance. Yet he kept making boasts about the great karate he had learned from this teacher.

    And really, even in the old days of long pants karate full contact matches, it was obvious from the start that the punching rulesets forced the karate guy to end up learning boxing.

    What pisses me off is that the guy is trying to get into MMA, yet does not accept what MMA is showing him. Sure, it does not mean he has to give up his karate, but if he is serious, it has to be more than cosmetic, or more than just adding a grappling component, he needs to really expand his arsenal. At least learn enough boxing to know what parts of karate may work best against it. MIXED martial arts and all.

    Guys like that, I would actually prefer to stay out of MMA, actually. They are not going to much more than try to subvert it from beneath with their tightly-held dogma.

    We talk about Chun guys adding some extra skills to their arsenal to become better, but if they do so, while still retaining the same rigid beliefs about their core techniques and basic philosophy, are they really doing much besides adding some basic grappling and maybe a hook or two? Yet they may claim they are a viable variant of MMA, viable of course while they do not fight with others.

    So shut up and learn MMA indeed.

  3. #203

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They teach Karate at the gym I train for Muay Thai and MMA. The guys that train all three (Most of the instructors) try and integrate it all into their over all style. They use all the boxing punching and Muay Thai knees, elbows and stuff. However there's the advantage that Karate does bring and that's the movement, you don't stand and bang as often and instead learn how to get out of the way and frustrate your opponent. Which was pretty much what Lyotto Machida did. Lyotto made Karate work in MMA but wasn't stupid or arrogant enough to believe he wouldn't have to adapt the style to suit.

  4. #204
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ksennin View Post
    And really, even in the old days of long pants karate full contact matches, it was obvious from the start that the punching rulesets forced the karate guy to end up learning boxing.
    If karate was so great, they wouldn't have had a kick quota to meet in those matches.

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