Posted On:9/23/2002 12:45pm
I've been doing WT for about a year now and love it. However, I know someone who has been trained to fight in MMA for the same amount of time would hand my ass to me. Why? Not because WT is useless but because he would have trained harder. Not everyone wants to do weight training, take creatine, do loads of cardio and spar full contact just so they can do a martial art. Most people who do WT do it for self defence, fun and to meet people. I believe WT is good enough for the average person to be able to defend themselves if someone threatens them on the street, in a bar or club. It covers all ranges of combat (unlike WC) kicking, punching, elbows, knees, grappling and groundfighting. Psychological aspects of a fight are also covered.
I love watching MMA but it is not the be all and end all of martial arts. I'd like to do BJJ (cos in some respects it is similar to WT) but their aren't any schools in my area.
Demo vids of Boztepe are just that, demos. He's not going to punch his students at full power in the face. Chain punches are very effective when done properly with foot work and forward pressure.
Just my 2 cents worth
Posted On:9/23/2002 2:18pm
This message is to city guy...
In respect to contact sparring in wing chun it all depends on what school u attend. The school my sifu (a senior at the time)attended as well as my brother in the past had one of the fiercest training regiments in a martial art that was not going to be used for competition purposes. There are stories (myths maybe) from the seniors that the average classes as well as the sparring sessions were deadly (headgear and gloves used obviously). There was even a story about a level 8 testing which had sparring for a solid half an hour against multiple attackers. This was due to the intensity of the sifu who used fear to motivate his students. Trust me when i say he used fear...is that not the emotion you'll be feeling when under life threatening attack? So why not train and learn to cope with it, it will only make u a better fighter. He would purposely put on harder more fatiguing classes whenever a new student came in for a trial lesson so only the strong stayed. I'd say if ur happy at your current school set up some sparring sessions with some fellow martial artists. Just a coincidence but my sifu also used to box. And why are u guys hating on GM William Cheung? did u not know that Bruce Lee himself regarded William as the 'deadliest man on earth'? Did u not know it was William who taught Bruce after Yip Man refused to teach him because he was a quarter white (German on his moms side to be exact)? Don't disrespect other styles, humility is key to a good martial artist.
Posted On:9/23/2002 2:32pm
Show me a reference where Bruce Lee said William Cheung is the deadliest man on earth.
Ready are you? What know you of ready?
Posted On:9/23/2002 4:00pm
Style: EBMAS WT(& Prenatal Yoga)
That isn't from a William Cheung website or book.
If a `religion' is defined to be a system of ideas that contains unprovable statements, then Godel taught us that mathematics is not only a religion, it is the only religion that can prove itself to be one. -- John Barrow
Talk to TBK's boyfriend:
Posted On:9/23/2002 11:05pm
The retarded thing is that if you look in the back of Leung Tings "Dynamic Wing Tsun" book you'll find some quote from him to the effect of "until you practice your techniques with full speed and force against another person with protective gear,you won't really know how good your technique is." Yet so many WT schools DON'T do that.
I have to say that Emin Boztepe's branch by far has impressed my the most....in fact I may be going back there to train again.
Posted On:9/24/2002 2:12am
&gt;Just Curious, why do you have respect for William Cheung?
Because in his youth, Will Cheung accepted and participated in many challenge matches and won. (Much like the Gracies or even Bruce Lee) Maybe Emin has done this as well but I have never heard anything about it.
The only match I have heard of is when Emin ran up to the stage area during a demonstration and ambushed a man twice his age (20 years older than him) and in doing so failed to use any WC (or WT) techniques but instead just tackled the old man like a kid on the playground. Pretty weak. Sorry.
Posted On:9/24/2002 4:24am
I'm sorry 9, but you are really in a different world than me.
William Cheung may have fought a few times but the real WC fighter from his generation was Wong Shun Long.
William Cheung challenged anyone in the Wing Chun world to fight him any time, any place, Emin showed up. There was no stage area, it was not a demonstration. Cheung was ostensibly there to teach.
I've ask Sifu Emin about this event and he told me that one thing that pissed him off even more. He went to the seminar and started training like he was a student, and purposely did the movements as awkwardly and incorrect as possible. William Cheung told him he was doing it perfect.
There are things a lot weaker than this, like maybe spitting on people in competitions or stepping on them after the fact. Who would do that?
Posted On:9/24/2002 6:45am
My two cents on WT: I think it's the most self defense focussed style amongts the ones I have tried (JJ, BJJ, Shotokan, boxing, kickboxing, chuteboxe, judo), in the sense that you only train to do the maximum damage to the adversary with the minimum effort.
There's alot of science in it (cinetic, anatomy) but all the study has been devoided to eliminated non practical thing and stress the efficent ones.
Of course you can train in a "soft" way without athletic preparation, full contact sparring, cross training, which in my opinion is wrong for seklf defense purposes, but this means that you are training incorrectly, not that the style is not efficient.
One thing that I do not give a s#*t about is all the lineage, german incident, yip man lineage trash: personally I only look at the class, teacher, training and effect on myself of the art, and leave all the rest to people who like to talk about it.
Go and find a school of WT or WC, try it, broaden your view doing some other styles (from boxing to judo to etc...), make your own opinion and choices.
Posted On:9/24/2002 11:13am
I agree with bncwd when he talks about not getting wrapped up in the politics of the art but i can't help asking these questions. In respect with the Emin/Cheung fight i just wanted to try and decipher what happened according to the footage. Why did the tape only start running when Emin had William in a side choke? there must have been some sort of build up to an accepted challenge match. How did a fight between two 'Striking' masters degrade into a grappling match? Why weren't there any wing chun techniques buy Emin? did he not blatantly through over extending round punches while in the mount? I just want to bring these to light objectively. I am not disrespecting anyone, i just want these questions answered.
Posted On:9/24/2002 11:24am
I agree with bncwd also. I don't give a sh*t about the politics either, I just enjoy training in WT. I went to a Leung Ting seminar this year in the UK. It was really good with loads of info and some advanced stuff. But the best thing was when LT said "Don't believe me, don't believe your instructor, believe in reasons and the logic in the system". I don't give a damn who LT was trained by cos WT makes sense.
I don't think we are ever going to find out what really happened that day Emin and Cheung fought. What I can tell from the clip though is that Emin attacked Cheung's weaknesses. Cheung is a striker so Emin grappled with him and took him to the ground. As I said before, WT covers all ranges.
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