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  1. Sasuke is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 4:55am


     Style: Wing Chun,Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You serious?Most schools here train like I do.So there are actually a lot of kwoons that dont use full sparring?That takes away like 50% efficiency out of training.
  2. Lefty is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 7:01am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lightninghands
    the spanish had guns, the filipinos had sticks and swords. i believe that thier claim to fame is that they killed ferdinand magellan with sticks and swords.
    you cant ignore the FMAs quality of fighting. They do not show face in regular UFC or MMA fights. how ever, ppl like the DOG brothers do have full contact stick fights as competition. those arts remain true to their ideals and have yet to sell out as much as say wing chun has. but then again, look back to the history of all martial arts. they were all at one time effective for survival. i believe that modern society responsible for our beloved BULLSHIDO. most styles have sold out in one way or another, watered down their methods! BJJ would be even more effective if they trained to break the arm rather than for a tap. WC would be more effective if they actually hit people for real. karate TKD, TSD, if they didnt train for point sparring.

    i would say that boxing is the only sport i can think of that has not lost its original purpose. but boxers would get hurt to a skilled grappler, or any one that isolated low line kicks etc.

    the problem continues, are sport martial arts real martial arts????????????
    and have "real martial arts" fallen victim to excessive watering down, and bullshidoism.
    Not to be too pedantic but I read at the escrima digest http://www.martialartsresource.com/f...o/filframe.htm
    that a historical researcher uncovered the ship's log from Magellan's ship where a senior officer recounts the death of Magellan.

    In the account Filipinos of Lapu Lapu's island used fire hardened spears or darts to nail him from long range before he was taken out by spear troops (or fire hardened, pointed sticks) in a melee.

    Although its true the popular account is there was a battle between Lapu Lapu and Magellan where Lapu Lapu used early Arnis and wielded a way-bladed krys or a kampilan to defeat Magellan, who defended himself with spanish steel, from memory a saber, and the style of spanish fencing.

    Just thought I'd mention it... I suppose its possible that the ship's officer's account doesn't completely discount the possibility that Lapu Lapu was in the melee and took out Magellan (who was defended by Conquistadores) in a bladed duel amongst the carnage. But it does seem to cast doubt on the myth.
    Last edited by Lefty; 4/29/2005 7:07am at .
  3. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 7:05am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty
    Not to be too pedantic but I read at the escrima digest http://www.martialartsresource.com/f...o/filframe.htm
    that a historical researcher uncovered the ship's log from Magellan's ship where a senior officer recounts the death of Magellan.

    In the account Filipinos of Lapu Lapu's island used fire hardened spears or darts to nail him from long range before he was taken out by spear troops (or fire hardened, pointed sticks) in a melee.

    Although its true the popular account is there was a battle between Lapu Lapu and Magellan where Lapu Lapu used early Arnis and wielded a way-bladed krys or a kampilan to defeat Magellan, who defended himself with spanish steel, from memory a saber, and the style of spanish fencing.

    Just thought I'd mention it...

    You realise that Spain had control of the Philipines for a very long time right?
  4. Lefty is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 7:16am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    You realise that Spain had control of the Philipines for a very long time right?
    Sure but the Philippines wasnt a united front as such and still isnt today. There were as many places friendly to the Spanish as opposed them. There are thousands of islands.

    There are US troops in the Philippines today defending against Moro terrorists. Its a uniquely troubled and diverse place. It still has regions where tribal people live in the jungle as they did many millenia ago. While also sporting a highly militarised, perhaps overly corrupt and decadent society in some places. :nike:

    I can understand why the Moros wish to fight for their independence against presidents like that Elvis impersonator who stole all that mega-cash. You know the one before the current President...

    There are many left overs from the Spanish eg. they often speak Spanish and Tagalog and it is the only Catholic Asian Nation...

    A law was passed during Spanish occupation that Filipinos had to have Spanish names. The Spanish were cruel bastards gawd bless 'em...

    The Filipinos over time and battles came to admire certain aspects of Spanish fencing and some of it eg. espada daga (sword and dagger) techniques entered the Filipino martial teaching. Also many schools would come to teach Arnis in Spanish because it was a common language among the many different ethnic/tribal groups.
    Last edited by Lefty; 4/29/2005 7:26am at .
  5. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 7:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty
    The Filipinos over time and battles came to admire certain aspects of Spanish fencing and some of it eg. espada daga (sword and dagger) techniques entered the Filipino martial teaching. Also many schools would come to teach Arnis in Spanish because it was a common language among the many different ethnic/tribal groups.

    Of course they would admire them, they were trained professional soldiers with the best training and the best weapons.
    They had Spanish Fury !!
  6. I aint punchy!? is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2005 9:29pm


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke
    ... So there are actually a lot of kwoons that dont use full sparring?That takes away like 50% efficiency out of training.
    Yeh its unbelievable but sadly true.

    Basically I would go so far as to say that kwoons that dont focus on sparring in the higher levels will produce students that can't fight... this is regardless of style.

    Can you imagine a boxing club that consisted of people that didn't spar? The standard would be so much lower than a boxing club where sparring was mandatory. And those few people that dared to fight in the ring would be of a much higher standard again. The conditioning requirements are such that it would be hard not to be.

    So by having realistic sparring in a kwoon you encourage conditioning and students learn how to fight.

    Sounds like your kwoon is pretty good.
  7. Sasuke is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/03/2005 9:29am


     Style: Wing Chun,Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dont know if its true but a friend of mine from the uk said its a lot harder to find schools (kung fu)that do proper full contact sparring because of red tape.Dont know if the law has that big an effect on martial arts schools but here in south africa most schools do work more or less like mine.No wonder there are so many people on this site dissing wing chun.
  8. wingchunnewbie is offline

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    UK
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2005 10:21am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke
    Dont know if its true but a friend of mine from the uk said its a lot harder to find schools (kung fu)that do proper full contact sparring because of red tape.Dont know if the law has that big an effect on martial arts schools but here in south africa most schools do work more or less like mine.No wonder there are so many people on this site dissing wing chun.
    I don't think that would be a cause of the difficulty in finding full contact KF in the UK. UK laws don't stop full-contact boxing, Kickboxing, MT or Kyokushin schools, so there's no reason why they would prevent people from practicing full-contact KF.
  9. Sasuke is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2005 6:49am


     Style: Wing Chun,Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thats wat i thought.Told him it was stupid but he says its more because of people sueing over ridiculous things now a days than the actual laws.But like i said this was second hand info and not from personal expierience.(never even been to the uk)
  10. trwc1970 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2005 1:41pm


     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    emin and cheung

    It is well known that the video of Cheung and Emin was heavily edited to only show the take down . Even so i would say that Cheung did a fine job of blocking punches while down. Before the pieces were cut out Cheung had him in a headlock and shot out a kick but it lacked any real power as Cheung had on slippers and slid on contact. Emin had an axe to grind that day and they were after Cheung in some inner Wing Chun politics scandal.the take down is perfectly valid as a part of any system ,and no it does not make me feel like rethinking my martial arts system after watching the video. I feel that Cheung blocked as best he could, and nobody really got hurt,despite Emins intentions all that being said Emin is a beast and a very able fighter,and while Cheung is the current inherited grand master of the system it may not mean he is still the best in a no holds barred fight.then again he has proved himself many times over in contests against many different styles,and opponents.

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