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  1. ysc87 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 2:46pm


     Style: crapp-lawl-ing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackson1014
    IMO.... A good wrist lock is very effective but only temperately to set up for a better submission
    and it all depends on the situation your in is on the mat or is in the street!!!!!
    sort of agreed, but not as a state of submission, but as a trasitory state. between w/e you're doing or attempting to do. i mean, hell, there's a handful of situations i can think of where a wrist lock is all you need, but most of those are not for fighting, but as de-escalation tactics.
  2. PizDoff is online now

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 2:49pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Did my report post work? I got chastised last time for not using it.
    Yes, though someone sent me the thread first.
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  3. S0meguy is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 2:58pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kyukido, TKD, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I get you OP.

    You're saying that you don't employ wrist locks that are dependant on your moron opponent keeping his wrist-grab on you.

    The popular opinion 'round here is that those aren't actually even wrist locks, they are just silly.

    Wrist locks which don't have such a bogus stipulation are, around here, thought to be of limited use. They are for sure, everywhere, not considered a technique that will end a fight.

    These guys are just saying that if you are going to use fine joint manipulation in a fight, you better follow it extremely quickly with some hard techniques ("boot to the head" or a good right cross would be an excellent start, followed immediately by running the hell away).
  4. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:11pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Or, I suppose, to finish the lock. If you're doing nikkyo as described you'd have to be willing to do it an an explosive manner and try to tear up his wrist. Just like if you're using a choke -- you have to be willing to choke him out.
  5. jkdbuck76 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: jkd concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wristlocks are great....that is IF he's already down, immobilized,
    you have control of his body and his/her range of motion in wrist
    isn't too much, nobody is too sweaty, and you have good grip
    strength.
    SEANBABY:
    "The seventh law of thermodynamics is that every time a fat person gets near a trapdoor, they fall in. It’s the closest thing we have to scientific proof of God."
  6. willaume is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:18pm


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    I think what he is asking is:

    "What do you people mean when you say you can escape my powerful wrist locks? Surely I control your whole body through this one join (ala Ryaboko wtf his name is)."

    For the avg person wrist lock might give you enough time through pain compliance to do something else. But in and of them selves they are rather inneffective against another fighter.
    Thank pizdoff I am sorry for the thread title; I should have read the rules.

    Cirjil
    Well no actually I asked exactly the opposite, there is no way that you can have control on someone with only one joint. That is my point.

    In fact this is the blumming point on which aikido is based: IE it is no because the hold one articulation with on or two hands (as I happens we do grab something else that the wrist when we don strike or kick) you can still move the rest of your body.

    You keep telling that you can get away by just letting go. And that does not make sense to me.. Of course it does not work; intrinsically it relies on your opponent to put it on himself.
    Seeing “wristlock” like that is like saying that DLT is only grab the leg at the knee and blowing on the guy to make him fall.

    phil
  7. ysc87 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:19pm


     Style: crapp-lawl-ing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nobody is too sweaty
    i just thought of the perfect way to counter every aikido move known to man= rub vasoline on your wrists.
  8. ysc87 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:30pm


     Style: crapp-lawl-ing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willaume

    You keep telling that you can get away by just letting go. And that does not make sense to me.. Of course it does not work; intrinsically it relies on your opponent to put it on himself.
    Seeing “wristlock” like that is like saying that DLT is only grab the leg at the knee and blowing on the guy to make him fall.

    phil

    that's a horrible comparison, b/c a dlt does not require your opponent to do anything aside from being not completely ready for it. it is caused by your own efforts.
    the fact that aikido "intrinsically it relies on your opponent to put it on himself" is the reason we can get away by just letting go. it's the simplest and first reaction an opponent will have to being grabbed.
  9. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:33pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willaume
    Thank pizdoff I am sorry for the thread title; I should have read the rules.

    Cirjil
    Well no actually I asked exactly the opposite, there is no way that you can have control on someone with only one joint. That is my point.

    In fact this is the blumming point on which aikido is based: IE it is no because the hold one articulation with on or two hands (as I happens we do grab something else that the wrist when we don strike or kick) you can still move the rest of your body.

    You keep telling that you can get away by just letting go. And that does not make sense to me.. Of course it does not work; intrinsically it relies on your opponent to put it on himself.
    Seeing “wristlock” like that is like saying that DLT is only grab the leg at the knee and blowing on the guy to make him fall.

    phil
    Wrists/hands are small. They move fast. Sometimes they're quite strong. Other times they're trying to punch you or clinch with you. They get sweaty.

    When grabbed, the reaction of most untrained people to jerk the hand out. It works quite well. Some people actually know technical ways of making you let go of your grip.
  10. willaume is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2007 3:44pm


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata
    Or, I suppose, to finish the lock. If you're doing nikkyo as described you'd have to be willing to do it an an explosive manner and try to tear up his wrist. Just like if you're using a choke -- you have to be willing to choke him out.
    Yes I agree with you on the principle of doing the technique as if you want to bust the articulation (elbow or wrist).
    In fact really, you need to have that mentality to bring down an un-compliant and actively resisting opponent.
    (that limits proper sparing to people that you trust especially when you get older…)

    However in the example I have used, Cirilj is right. It relies mainly on the wrist trap in the early stage,
    Which makes it “easy” to escape if we do not have some sort of time advantage or te commitment you are talking about.

    What I am saying that “wristlock” to be effective in bring someone down really need to have a component that act on the elbow (even if the pain in the wrist).
    If we take all the wrist look (they can be take down or immobiliastion)

    Ikkio: you rotate the wrist and the elbow in the same direction.
    Nikkio: you rotate the wrist one way and the elbow the other
    Sankio: you rotate the wrist and the elbow in the same way (the elbow is done by the way the hand is positioned)

    Ionkio (there is version with presure point which I do not like, but is action on the shoulder and elbow.
    Rokkio: presses the elbow down and the wrist up.
    The only thing I can think of in aikido that rely purely on the wrist is kote geishi (aka
    wrist throw) and again the elbow is kind of locked

    If you do not have both composants, it just does not work.
    phil
    Last edited by willaume; 6/01/2007 3:49pm at .
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