Effective Bujinkan Training

**Rubber Tanto** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 1:50am

Originally Posted by spartan6

Here's some effective Bujinkan training for you. Do as you are shown or go do something else.

No offence Spartan but you really are a sounding like a dickhead.

Originally Posted by spartan6

You are trying to turn the Bujinkan into a sport. Im not ignoring the merits of sport fighting or adapting an old art to modern society but rather that those of the Bujinkan are shown a certain way and should respect that and follow it as the teacher has intended.
.

Respect has nothing to do with it. This is a martial art, my friend. And no one is selling this product as a classical reinactment class. If realistic and applicable self defence is what is being sold, then how will you ever know if it works if you don't try to realistically apply it?

And why is it turning into a sport when you want to see how it works realistically?

Kindly point out how these types of drills make it a sport?

And please save me the no rules on the street ****.
Just to point this out, yesterday after class, myself and a nidan were talking about how so many people on forums say that submission fighting, MMA etc doesn't bother them because they would fight with "full contact no rules - such eye gouging, biting, pinching etc"

Being quite stupid, both of us decided to try it out. We had 4 sparring sessions with no holds barred. We both really wanted to see if we could force a tap-out, get a submission etc from someone like this.

It was the dumbest thing I have ever done. But as I said to Lily this morning, Matt and I went at it hammer and tong and in the end I have a huge bite mark on my tricep that drew blood under my gi, A swollen nose that bled for 30 min, he has a red/black eye from where I poked him, and scratches all over his face. I have scratches on my neck from where he raked me while I choked him, I have sore nuts from when it went to the ground and it got messy and he was punching me as I was elbowing him in the face. He thought that would stop me but the adrenaline kept it out of my mind until much after (then the sore gut started! ouch)

So in the end, today, we are both black and blue and you know what...it didn't stop either of us getting a submission. We took the pain and kept on going because we knew we had reached a point where no matter what the other guy does, as long as we can hold on we will get that choke, armbar on etc...

on a side note. Matt is an awesome martial artist. His form is perfect, his sparring is awesome, his last rank came straight from nagato. And when I spar with him and I go in with a "sport" jab/cross and he flanks and drops one on my jaw and its pure taijustu...I know why I am at THIS dojo. And I know that the decision for me to train the way IO train is the right one.

So let me rephrase your own comment.
If you want to train in just classical bujinkan kata, then good for you Spartan, just don't bother telling me to train like you or leave...I'm not interested.

I'll train the way I want to train: Realisticaly and effectively. Where you find the sport in doing that is beyond me.

Oh and for the record, before you go spouting your "real-life experiences" again which was some guy had a weapon and you ran. I've been in a situation where some guy had a weapon and I couldn't run...so for me, the difference between what you think you will be able to do in a real situation and what you know you can do in a real situation are two very different things.

Originally Posted by spartan6

Everything has it's place.

And yours is clearly not here.

**DAYoung** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 2:41am

Originally Posted by Rubber Tanto

No offence Spartan but you really are a sounding like a dickhead.

Respect has nothing to do with it. This is a martial art, my friend. And no one is selling this product as a classical reinactment class. If realistic and applicable self defence is what is being sold, then how will you ever know if it works if you don't try to realistically apply it?

And why is it turning into a sport when you want to see how it works realistically?

Kindly point out how these types of drills make it a sport?

And please save me the no rules on the street ****.
Just to point this out, yesterday after class, myself and a nidan were talking about how so many people on forums say that submission fighting, MMA etc doesn't bother them because they would fight with "full contact no rules - such eye gouging, biting, pinching etc"

Being quite stupid, both of us decided to try it out. We had 4 sparring sessions with no holds barred. We both really wanted to see if we could force a tap-out, get a submission etc from someone like this.

It was the dumbest thing I have ever done. But as I said to Lily this morning, Matt and I went at it hammer and tong and in the end I have a huge bite mark on my tricep that drew blood under my gi, A swollen nose that bled for 30 min, he has a red/black eye from where I poked him, and scratches all over his face. I have scratches on my neck from where he raked me while I choked him, I have sore nuts from when it went to the ground and it got messy and he was punching me as I was elbowing him in the face. He thought that would stop me but the adrenaline kept it out of my mind until much after (then the sore gut started! ouch)

So in the end, today, we are both black and blue and you know what...it didn't stop either of us getting a submission. We took the pain and kept on going because we knew we had reached a point where no matter what the other guy does, as long as we can hold on we will get that choke, armbar on etc...

on a side note. Matt is an awesome martial artist. His form is perfect, his sparring is awesome, his last rank came straight from nagato. And when I spar with him and I go in with a "sport" jab/cross and he flanks and drops one on my jaw and its pure taijustu...I know why I am at THIS dojo. And I know that the decision for me to train the way IO train is the right one.

So let me rephrase your own comment.
If you want to train in just classical bujinkan kata, then good for you Spartan, just don't bother telling me to train like you or leave...I'm not interested.

I'll train the way I want to train: Realisticaly and effectively. Where you find the sport in doing that is beyond me.

Oh and for the record, before you go spouting your "real-life experiences" again which was some guy had a weapon and you ran. I've been in a situation where some guy had a weapon and I couldn't run...so for me, the difference between what you think you will be able to do in a real situation and what you know you can do in a real situation are two very different things.

And yours is clearly not here.

What a fantastic post.

This is the kind of post that should be stickied, just as a reminder.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 4:04am

"submission' - starting on the ground until submission.

I'm still not seeing an explanation for this. Help me understand. As one human being to another, almost alone in this empty universe, seeking love and attention and all the things that distract from the pain...tell me why I shouldn't use this statement to get you sent to the labor camps.

**Rubber Tanto** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 7:09am

Originally Posted by Hedgehogey

I'm still not seeing an explanation for this. Help me understand. As one human being to another, almost alone in this empty universe, seeking love and attention and all the things that distract from the pain...tell me why I shouldn't use this statement to get you sent to the labor camps.

I can only guess, but I think he means he and his training partner start of on the ground then grapple until one gets to successfuly submit the other. If that's not it then I have no fucking idea.

:confused1

**bob** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 7:13am

Originally Posted by Rubber Tanto

Being quite stupid, both of us decided to try it out. We had 4 sparring sessions with no holds barred. We both really wanted to see if we could force a tap-out, get a submission etc from someone like this.

It was the dumbest thing I have ever done. But as I said to Lily this morning, Matt and I went at it hammer and tong and in the end I have a huge bite mark on my tricep that drew blood under my gi, A swollen nose that bled for 30 min, he has a red/black eye from where I poked him, and scratches all over his face. I have scratches on my neck from where he raked me while I choked him, I have sore nuts from when it went to the ground and it got messy and he was punching me as I was elbowing him in the face. He thought that would stop me but the adrenaline kept it out of my mind until much after (then the sore gut started! ouch)

So in the end, today, we are both black and blue and you know what...it didn't stop either of us getting a submission. We took the pain and kept on going because we knew we had reached a point where no matter what the other guy does, as long as we can hold on we will get that choke, armbar on etc...
.

I'm seriously reconsidering going to your throwdown dude.

**Rubber Tanto** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 7:18am

Originally Posted by bornsceptic

I'm seriously reconsidering going to your throwdown dude.

Do you mean yes you're coming...or no you're not?

**bob** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 7:20am

If you promise to bite me, I'm there.

**Rubber Tanto** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 7:39am

Originally Posted by bornsceptic

If you promise to bite me, I'm there.

Only if you scream "ninja boy"
:homo:

**rw4th** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 11:57am

An important thing was left out: train against people from other schools and styles. Participate in local amateur grappling and/or MMA competitions to test and validate your approach. You could also host your own competitions with your own rules. Not all students have to do this kind of stuff, but some should in an effort to prevent the inbreeding and predictability that comes from always training against the same people.

**Hedgehogey** · Posted On: 6/04/2007 3:04pm

Originally Posted by Rubber Tanto

I can only guess, but I think he means he and his training partner start of on the ground then grapple until one gets to successfuly submit the other. If that's not it then I have no fucking idea.

:confused1

That's what I was afraid. Well, it's death by shivering and typhus for him.