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  1. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 2:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Can I prevent Judo knees?

    With Judo being my new passion, being a close second to boxing. I found that all the veterans at the gym have their knees being held together by tape and braces. Is there anyway to prevent this ie. exercises, stretches, prayer... accepting Jesus as your Lord and personal Savior?
  2. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 2:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Knee is the worst designed joint ever, like a cruel joke from God. *shakes fist at the Heavens*
  3. Fitz is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 2:43pm


     Style: Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jesus isn't much of a knee diety. You might want to shop around.

    There's only so much you can do to prevent potential damage but good conditioning, resistance training, integrated movement (see if you can find a non-hippy Feldenkrais* practitioner to teach you a bit or find a decent yoga class), and knowing when you've been had and simpy going with the throw rather then trying to fight it when it is clearly too late will help a lot.

    If you don't mind me asking where on Long Island are you training?

    *Mosche Feldenkrais was an early Judo practitioner and engineer who developed a method of functional integration after blowing out a knee in Randori and having to rehab it. It's not uncommon to find Judo, Aikido and some Bujinkan (particularly the Israeli folks) who practice Feldenkrais to improve their MA training.
  4. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 2:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Massapequa, Judo Sports is the name of the school, this is my review of the school:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51460
  5. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 3:46pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Say your Kimura's 100 times a night, and Kano (He who is all knowing, peace be unto He) will heal thy knees.

    Seriously,

    Resistance training has been what has saved a lot of the guys at my club, and one of the reasons that I'm so far ok in the knee arena. Good ol' bench step ups, and leg extensions are good for knees. Also, explosive lateral exercises like lateral leg hops are good, its just the constant impact you have to be careful of. Be careful how much high impact stuff you do outside of the dojo, running and the like can be bad for knees over time, especially if you've got bulk, but swimming, cycling are better for your knees when you want to do cardio.

    I used to have knee problems, but they've gotten much better since strengthening them.

    Doesn't hurt to put on braces before injury too, it could lessen the risk or outright help to prevent serious injury.

    Humans walking upright is really just a series of controlled falls, and a reason why the knee joints are particularly shitty. So good luck with that.
  6. Knave is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 4:39pm


     Style: bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Greetings.

    Humans walking upright is really just a series of controlled falls, and a reason why the knee joints are particularly shitty.
    I hear this sort of thing alot, but can't for the life of me find out where the saying came from. It doesn't make any sense to me. Walking for any species could be called a series of controlled falls. That's what legs do. They allow us to move without falling over. That's what walking is. I don't think that has anything to do with the knee joint not being good at lateral/medial movement. The knee joint accomplishes its main purposes fine. Judo, soccer, football, etc just weren't big factors in the evolution of the knee joint I'm afraid. It's like a free diver saying that the human lungs are shitty because we can't breathe under water, and calling the human respiratory system a series of controlled gasps for air to prevent certain suffocation.
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 4:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    According to exrx.net and other sources, one-leg leg extensions (the last 20%-something of the range of movement) help to strenghten the vastus medialis (the muscle that keeps the kneecap in place). So that's something to consider.

    Another things to consider is to increase flexibility of the following (all of them equally important):

    -- hamstrings
    -- quadriceps
    -- gluteus
    -- hip abductors, flexors, external and internal rotators
    -- ankle joint and shins

    The flexibility (or lack thereof) of all of them will determine how much a knee can withstand before taking severe damage. It's not the knee that moves, but your femurs, your shins, your ankles and your hip that move. Flexibility increases your range of movement and muscular strenght keeps things together.

    I personally know of a soccer player who's knee almost popped up during practice, and according to the doctor who attended him, it was his humungus quads and his flexibility that kept it in place. He still had to wear a brace for a while, but the damage could have been more severe.

    If an accident is going to happen to your knees in judo, it will happen. All you can do is train smart and take precausions. Speaking of which... segardless of the health of you knees, you should wear knee braces/wraps at all times during training. You strenghten your knees with strenght training, and you keep them flexible on your own. So training with knee braces/wraps should not be detrimental.

    Why leave it to chance when one can just add a bit of extra protection and support with a brace/wrap?
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 4:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knave
    Greetings.



    I hear this sort of thing alot, but can't for the life of me find out where the saying came from. It doesn't make any sense to me. Walking for any species could be called a series of controlled falls. That's what legs do. They allow us to move without falling over. That's what walking is. I don't think that has anything to do with the knee joint not being good at lateral/medial movement. The knee joint accomplishes its main purposes fine. Judo, soccer, football, etc just weren't big factors in the evolution of the knee joint I'm afraid. It's like a free diver saying that the human lungs are shitty because we can't breathe under water, and calling the human respiratory system a series of controlled gasps for air to prevent certain suffocation.
    Spoiler:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. BumFu is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 6:01pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SAMBO shoes, with their slicker soles, saved my knees a great deal of twisting. Give em a try.

    May Kano be with you.
  10. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2007 7:21pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Knave

    I hear this sort of thing alot, but can't for the life of me find out where the saying came from. It doesn't make any sense to me. Walking for any species could be called a series of controlled falls. That's what legs do. They allow us to move without falling over. That's what walking is. I don't think that has anything to do with the knee joint not being good at lateral/medial movement. The knee joint accomplishes its main purposes fine. Judo, soccer, football, etc just weren't big factors in the evolution of the knee joint I'm afraid. It's like a free diver saying that the human lungs are shitty because we can't breathe under water, and calling the human respiratory system a series of controlled gasps for air to prevent certain suffocation.
    Really I just made that as a throwaway statement, but, and I can't even believe I doing this...

    One of the most commonly accepted theories (though there are others) about why humans adapted to bipedalism is because it freed up our hands for tasks like carrying. Therefore our legs became less important and our legs became far less useful than the legs of quadripeds and even those of other bipeds.

    Our knees just weren't made for quick, and highly explosive movements like other bipedals like the ostrich. I will totally agree with you that all of walking or running is a series of controlled falls, but really what I was trying to say was that humans walk and run, and even stand in a less effective manner than most other bipeds.

    Though our knees serve their purpose they do not not allow for much more, so when sports like Judo, where there is alot of lateral, explosive movement, **** up knees it should really be no surprise.

    I honestly have no idea what point you were trying to make by the "Judo, soccer, and football" statements, as I am well aware they had nothing to do with the evolution or rather our adaptation of bipedalism.

    And the respiratory system is a series of controlled (though generally unconcious) gasps for air to prevent certain suffocation. So I'm not sure of the point you were trying to make.

    I'm no expert on evolutionary theory, and I'm sure there is someone here who will just DESTROY me, but this is my layman's understanding.

    I don't want to **** up the OP's thread so I'll just stop now. We can take this to trollshido if you want to continue.

    Sambo shoes are a good idea if thats cool with your instructors, I'd give that a try...
    Last edited by Mas; 5/23/2007 7:26pm at . Reason: Is good grammar now?
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