Pai Lum Kung Fu?

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 5/23/2007 1:59pm

Does anyone have any first hand experience of knowledge of this system? I already have some info from Wiki and a couple of other sources, was hoping someone had some experience with this system and could give me an unbiased opinion of the quality of it.

Thanks

**OZZ** · Posted On: 5/23/2007 3:14pm

It USED to be good...my understanding is it has degenerated somewhat since the death of Daniel Pai..
Our club was affiliated with the Pai Lum many years ago and we were known as the Canadian rep of that system. But that was before my time, We have retained the circle workout , but that is about it.
Sorry I can't tell you more. But my understanding is that the school got too big and it became watered down over time. I can ask my instructor and get some more info this weekend when I see him.

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 5/24/2007 7:57am

Originally Posted by OZZ

It USED to be good...my understanding is it has degenerated somewhat since the death of Daniel Pai..
Our club was affiliated with the Pai Lum many years ago and we were known as the Canadian rep of that system. But that was before my time, We have retained the circle workout , but that is about it.
Sorry I can't tell you more. But my understanding is that the school got too big and it became watered down over time. I can ask my instructor and get some more info this weekend when I see him.

That would be great! I am wondering if they spar, what the contact level of the sparring is and what the consensus is on its effectiveness. From what I've read it seemed like it was a very intensive workout and tough training in the early years but have not been able to find any indication of what it's like now. I would also appreciate any info you can get on the skill and fighting level of Glen C. Wilson.

Thanks

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/24/2007 12:15pm

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=32445
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=328671
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...ad.php?t=29364

Here are a couple of threads until OZZ gets back to you. I don't know how worthwhile they are but, maybe they'll add a little perspective.

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 5/24/2007 4:31pm

Thanks for the help.

**OZZ** · Posted On: 5/27/2007 6:50pm

Info coming..I just have to organize it and I will post it later tonight, hopefully. We have dinner guests..so we'll see.
Ronin.74 - I will also be sending you some info via pm ...

**Ronin.74** · Posted On: 5/27/2007 8:26pm

Cool! I await your pm!

**OZZ** · Posted On: 5/28/2007 11:57am

Daniel Pai, the founder of the Pai Lum, was an Okinawan Kempo practicioner...the Chinese Boxing was brought in by others including Lee's students over a couple of years. Forms were taught, but not the application of the forms. Things changed and were added and attributed to Pai to make it legitimate. As the organization grew, the quality began to suffer as with any large organization.
Lee (sijo of our kwoon and my instructor's sifu) met Dan Pai's teacher at a Kou Shou tournament in Las Vegas. He was an Okinawan gentleman and, as Dan Pai told Lee, 'the only man he bowed to'. His students did very good Tai Chi.
The seniors in the Pai Lum know the truth about the origins of the organization, however they tend to keep the myth alive because it is their livelihood. The major problem with their history is that there has been many contributors over the years ( Including Lee Pai and his students -Patrick McCarthy - Hartford, Conneticut..Tom Ford- Virginia Beach..Bruce Curry - Florida ) but these contributors are set aside in the mythology of the organization and everything is attributed to Pai to give things legitimacy.
Not to speak ill of the dead, but Dan Pai did not help things much with his typical response to a question being "what do you think?' - so sometimes things were introduced that maybe shouldn't have been? Anyways..his involvement with Kou Shou was to seek legitimacy for his Chinese Heritage that had been denied him ( he was not full blooded Chinese) and not to claim a Chinese Martial Art . Dan Pai never wanted to be a CMA practicioner and was good enough at his own style to handle any man.
There are a couple of articles about the Pai Lum on our club's webpage www.pakmei.net
As far as students seeking out instruction goes - seek out one of the old timers who could provide excellent Kempo and Tai Chi instruction. Most especially, seek out the ones who were around before Dan Pai went to Florida..
As far as CMA goes..well, you be the judge.This is the history of the organization as I understand it.
As far as what they are doing today..we are not affiliated with them any more. However, there is no animosity between us. We do what we do and they do what they do.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/28/2007 12:06pm

Alrighty OZZ. Thank you.

Now you know I'm obliged to ask about some links and some proof to back up these assertions.

I have corresponded with your teacher and I feel he is a stand up guy.

Yet, I can't just vouch for him it makes me a hypocrite when I ask others for verification. Even if you have to PM some things to Sam browning to keep it private.

**OZZ** · Posted On: 5/28/2007 12:19pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

Alrighty OZZ. Thank you.

Now you know I'm obliged to ask about some links and some proof to back up these assertions.

I have corresponded with your teacher and I feel he is a stand up guy.

Yet, I can't just vouch for him it makes me a hypocrite when I ask others for verification. Even if you have to PM some things to Sam browning to keep it private.

PM coming..