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  1. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2007 2:53pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    well, it seems unfair to link his name with "McDojo" in the thread title, at a minimum. someone who googles his name (or his school's) & doesn't read the whole thread might well convict him by implication.
    The thread title is a question.

    If someone doesn't take the time to read the thread they would pass judgment anyway. Most people, that are going to research into the school, are going to read the entire thread.
  2. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2007 3:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G8
    well, it seems unfair to link his name with "McDojo" in the thread title, at a minimum. someone who googles his name (or his school's) & doesn't read the whole thread might well convict him by implication.

    I had briefly considered changing the title to "LOL!!! TKD old, young, and crippled people!!!111", then throwing the whole thread in trollshido. It's a dumb MABS topic for Eldarbong to be posting his prejudices in.


    Instead, I took out the word "bullshido" in the title. I also added the school name and town so more people might be drawn into the thread and rebuke Eldarbong - which is exactly what happened.


    ... and Bill, please retake some of those pictures. The flag's blue field correctly belongs at the upper left corner.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 5/24/2007 3:38pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  3. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2007 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We should really have a certificate to award people.

    CERTIFIED NOT BULLSHIDO
    as of 5/24/2007
    *********************************************
  4. Bill Auvenshine is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 12:49pm


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Eldarbong: Damn! I owe you an apology. My wife informed me that we have had three blackbelts under the age of 13. My bad. But I still contend that they were worth of their belts. All of them had been training with me for at least 7 years before they earned them. They also understand that they are "pooms" and not "dans"...a big distinction made any time they do reach that level. Also, A few of my young blackbelts easily out perform the adults and generally pick up on techniques faster as they tend to be more limber and have more energy than their adult counter-points. Even with that however I never test them in the same time frame I might as an adults. No matter how skilled they are I don't believe they can understand theory and the science that are part and parcel of MA's.

    So far as to you not understanding why I allow people who cannot do all the techniques do to age or disability besides the fact that their conditioning, health and self-defense skills are greatly increased all I can give rank in is TKD. The blocks and hand strikes they use are from TKD, but I borrow much from other arts to augment what they cannot do. They DO know all the techniques to the point of spotting bad techniques even in kicks they cannot do.
    I have developed a course for wheel-chaired persons to learn defense in and out of their chairs. but it is a hard sell to get it noticed in the public arena. I doubt that it will ever get acclaim, let alone a governing body that would issue certification in...in....what would I even call it? So upon insuring that they do understand the things they cannot actually do coupled with the other techniques I borrow (or call it steal) from other arts I do not feel I am doing them a dis-service by allowing them a TKD certification, at least until some better certification comes along. (of which I am having no luck from since very few persons with disabilities are in MA's.)
  5. Bill Auvenshine is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 1:47pm


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "since this guy is pretty clearly not a bullshit artist, and since he has the nads & the courtesy to come on here & explain himself in a thoughtful manner, shouldn't this thread be moved & the title changed?"

    Well, I did come in here like a fool and I believe (especially since I temporarily lost my mind and babbled stuff I knew was crap) I deserved to be hammered for it and good. I even thank those of you who pointed that out to me in the same rational way that I should have done to start with.

    I'm sorry to lean on Don so much, but he is the only person in here I actually know. I think he would agree that I am a man with the upmost integrity, though I certainly did not show that in here until (I consider him) my friend took me to task for being an idiot.

    Of course I would like to see the title of this thread disappear as I sincerely believe that my dojang is far from being a McDojo. But I'll leave that to the powers that be as I certainly (until I can prove otherwise) was being a dumb-ass.

    I'm going to open up with all of you. I do not use this as an excuse for being a dumb-ass jerk nor do I use this for sympathy. I am only revealing something personal so that perhaps (Don) and others can at least see why I should not have answered to the claims for some time.

    My brother who is 14 months older than I am has been diagnosed as having stage 4 brain cancer. He is definitely dying. It's not a matter of months but rather days or weeks. I am not taking it well as he and I were very close. (In spite of being from a family of 9).
    I'm sure you all can understand what I am going through. Once again, I ask for no excuse of my stupidity nor am I excusing myself. I mean I even quit teaching classes in the last month since he has been diagnosed.

    On the other hand perhaps there is a bit of serendipity to be had. Since coming to this site and sticking it out in spite of my blunder it has given me the motivation to teach again. AND IT FEELS GREAT! I really did not think I could bring about the state of mind needed to teach. I think in some way that coming in here, being a jack-ass, getting a well-deserved smack down and then upon realizing how unfair I was to Don, sticking around to explain myself (hence my decision to tell all) has proven itself to be the very thing I needed to shake myself of my problems long enough to account for me being a moron that has enabled me to return to classes, which is it seems, the very thing I needed.
    Please, no condolences, no slack for the stupid things I said, and no giving me a pass.
    I'm just hoping for a little understanding as to why someone who is usually rational can do something so irrational.
    My apologies to Don. In the mean time, though I will be touch and go for some time, I can only hope to undo in time what it took me mere minutes to do so poorly here.

    Pilsung.
    Last edited by Bill Auvenshine; 5/25/2007 1:51pm at .
  6. Bill Auvenshine is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 2:04pm


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn! 3 or 4 new posts as I was typing! Guys I appreciate the opportunity to prove myself. I'm not sure I even deserved another shot after so blithely shooting myself in the foot. (and shooting off my mouth, now that takes talent!)

    Now I feel a bit embarrassed for explaining myself in the previous post. But as you guys were actively on line I figure the horse was out of the barn. But I think it has helped because I have been talking to no one about it.
    I went back to class last night after weeks of absence. My students and parents pulled a collection together and gave me a cash gift. (Driving 140 miles twice a week has depleted my bank account) It made me realize how bad I need to be there. They were so supportive and I should have known they would be, even if I wasn't on the ball had I been there.
    Anyway, you guys seem to be willing to give me a second chance and for that I am grateful.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 2:05pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Notice, most of us understand you provide a service. Don't worry about it and enjoy the site.

    People hate TKD, kung fu, karate, MMA so on and so forth forever Amen.

    We feel you aren't bullshido. If you stop posting the thread will get buried and disappear. If someone does look for info on you they will see what you do, what was said, and the determination of non-bullshido.

    In the end it will benefit you.

    Now, get the **** off the internet and go spend time with your brother.:)
  8. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 2:38pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Auvenshine
    Of course I would like to see the title of this thread disappear as I sincerely believe that my dojang is far from being a McDojo. But I'll leave that to the powers that be as I certainly (until I can prove otherwise) was being a dumb-ass.
    Bill,

    There is going to be a certain amount of guilt by association here with you running a TKD school under a national TKD organization. There are elements of McDojo involved with most TKD. Does this necessarily mean it's a bad school or not worth training at? Absolutely not. Some of the specific elelments of McDojo and Bullshido that a TMA school needs to overcome:

    1) Child black belts
    2) Realistic sparring of more of a MMA nature including ground work.
    3) Multi-market level contracts, which involve getting more money out of people, upgrading contracts to "black belt clubs", "masters clubs", etc. Locking people in to long contracts with no recourse.

    Kudos for specifically developing a training program for the disabled. More kudos for training the disabled for free.

    Here's elements to help you avoid the stigma associated with McDojo / Bullshido:

    1) Make a very visible distinction between child ranks and adult ranks. Do NOT translate child black belt directly to an adult black belt upon turning 13, 14 or whatever. That kind of delusion is not good for kids.

    2) In addition to Olympic style TKD sparring, introduce sparring that includes ground work. Bring in people to do seminars or teach regular classes in ground work / MMA sparring.

    3) Long-term contracts are a form of fear. Put action into developing your service and the back end will take care of itself.

    You seem like a decent guy. Over the next 20 years the market is going to change. The advent of MMA schools will pretty much start to take over the market space for TMA schools. The more popular MMA gets the less kids will relate to things like TKD, WC, Tai Chi. Look to plan for that.
  9. Bill Auvenshine is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 2:56pm


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ARRRRRGGG! Some of the posts were from yesterday! How did I not see those? I could have shut up and not brought my personal life into such focus. I think since all I did was look for all posts by me and answered them without actually clicking on "forums."??? Anyway, I'm an idiot....:)
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/25/2007 3:18pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When people get pissed they tend to miss the small details. It happens to everyone.

    You have made your point let it go. Also, don't search your name. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Points will get muddled, fights will ensue, posters will troll on and on.

    Say your piece then move on. Searching your name will frustrate you.
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