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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 9:35am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    It's hard to understand if you haven't been there, maybe i should put it into context.

    I grew up in South Africa and was born just after the end of apartheit. During the course of my childhood i learnt how to survive on the streets of Johannesburg.
    Let me put it into perspective. There is extreme poverty and unemployment, those that have fear for their life and those that don't steal, rape and kill.

    My home was broken into 3 times. Two out of those three times we where at home, men with balaclavas, guns and machettes came in and threatened our lives and stole anything they could carry. No amount of martial arts training can counter that, only an extreme amount of courage and willpower counts in a situation like that.

    Several times on the street i was attacked by men with knives and guns. (I was never shot at, only threatened. My friend wasn't so lucky, his throat was slit but he survived.) These situations martial arts and sparring amounted to **** because if you tried anything you were killed.

    Once or twice a month gang wars would erupt on the streets infront of our house. Hundreds of people would just wait there for someone to throw the first punch. Things would escalate, people pulled out guns, bats and broken class bottles. Sometimes in the morning we would find bullet holes in our walls and in our varanda glass (we had to install bullet proof glass).

    This is what i mean when i say real situations. Those of you who live in cosy suburbs in first world countries can't say **** because you have never been there, never felt the constant fear of death, never had to deal with armed men who are desperate enough to do anything....


    This is my past. This is where i grew up. This is where i draw my experiences from.
    Sounds like Compton, Liberty City projects, The Lulacs, South Phoenix, Harlem, etc. etc. etc.
  2. Nickeroon1987 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 9:41am


     Style: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    My biggest gripe with sparring is it hurts and does tremendous amounts of damage to your body (when sparring properly without safety equipment). To compensate you make it safer by using gloves/mitts or guards(shins, stomach, groin, mouth) but by that point can you really still call it sparring?
    What's sparring?
  3. kohadril is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 11:20am


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    I grew up in South Africa and was born just after the end of apartheit.
    1) The last whites-only vote in South Africa was held in March of 1992. That's the earliest anyone could really say apartheid had ended. Most scholars agree, however, that the end was more accurately marked by the lowering of the old flag (April 1994). From this we can derive that if what you're telling us is remotely true, you are no more than sixteen years old, and more likely thirteen or fourteen.

    2) There is no relevant language in which apartheid is spelled the way you have it above. Afrikaans, the language from which that word comes, requires no transliteration because it uses Roman letters, therefore it would be difficult to claim you are using a non-standard English form. Moreover, since it is a cognate of the English "aparthood," ending it with a "t" would never have made any sense. I really, really doubt that anybody from South Africa could not know how to spell "apartheid."

    3) For these two reasons I doubt that you grew up in South Africa. I'm still willing to entertain the possibility that you did, but only upon the production of clear and convincing evidence.

    During the course of my childhood i learnt how to survive on the streets of Johannesburg.
    If you're not lying to us, you're still a child, no more than sixteen years old.

    Also, whereabouts in Johannesburg did you live?

    This is what i mean when i say real situations. Those of you who live in cosy suburbs in first world countries can't say **** because you have never been there, never felt the constant fear of death, never had to deal with armed men who are desperate enough to do anything....
    1) You admit that your experience (if it is indeed your experience) is completely different from any that we would face here. You also admit that no MA would work. Therefore, what the **** is your point?
    2) Since we're the majority here, and MMA does work on OUR unarmed drunk football-fan filled streets, we have every right to talk about "the street."
    3) If it turns out that you are lying about your experience, you're just about the worst person on this board.
    Last edited by kohadril; 5/18/2007 11:25am at .
  4. ChiBlast is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 12:49pm


     Style: Sumo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    1. My point is there is more to Martial Arts than learning to hit people with your fists or put them in a choke.
    Right... so when angry black south Africans come to your house, with bats , knifes and guns, to take back the land that your ancestors stole from them, your gonna stop them with you self confidence, humility, respect and all the other things that Bullshido teaches?
  5. Slipster is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 1:00pm


     Style: BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    1. My point is there is more to Martial Arts than learning to hit people with your fists or put them in a choke.
    Martial arts isn't all about fighting, but it has to be AT LEAST about fighting. Combat should be the focus, the primary purpose, of martial arts. Humility, respect, self-control: these are good qualities to develop, but they should be secondary to actually knowing how to defend yourself.

    ChiBlast +rep
  6. kohadril is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 1:01pm


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan6
    I could but i won't... actually i will...

    http://www.dispatch.co.za/1998/05/26...ape/GERMAN.HTM

    Erich Ellmer was my girlfriends, Eva Ellmer, dad. Details the article doesn't share. From what i was told there were between 3-5 hijackers. Erich Ellmer was killed by an AK-47 and he was driving a BMW.
    I'm not sure how corroborative that is, especially of the more violent of your stories, and you admit that the article doesn't mention any relationship to you. Still, I provisionally accept that you lived in Johannesburg at some point. The only reason I am doing so is because I can't imagine that you're immoral enough to **** someone's corpse like this. Still, someone else's experiences don't provide evidence for your own.

    Newlands.
    Which administrative region is that? Central? Near Dobsonville?

    1. My point is there is more to Martial Arts than learning to hit people with your fists or put them in a choke.
    That would be...helplessly waiting as people take your belongings? You specifically told us that in the particular experiences you mentioned, any MA training would have proved useless. You're not showing us anything more that MA is about because you're categorically denying the value of MA in the situations you described.

    2. Also pointing out generalisations of the "majority" and that in some parts of the world life is very dangerous.
    Most people on this forum are from relatively safe industrialized nations. Is it unacceptable for us to talk about which martial arts are street-effective in our situations? Why wouldn't we do that? Additionally, you already disqualified your own experiences as useful to the discussion of martial arts for the reasons I explained above.

    3. You just can't make this **** up.
    Yes you can. And people do it all the time. That's why we have a comparatively high threshold for proof.
  7. superawesome is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 1:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: noob in bjj, mt

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracky McSlugHoot
    So, in other words, everybody should be packing an assault weapon and an ICBM for good measure, and practice using them at every opportunity.
    Lets look at the security practice using the five-question approach presented in the book:

    1. What assets are you trying to protect?

    You are trying to protect yourself from bodily harm. In the situation of a mugging, you are trying to protect your wallet, and the things inside. You may be trying to protect your family.

    2. What are the risks to those assets?
    You, and possibly your family, can be attacted by multiple attackers on teh street, who are most likely teh deadly, and have weapons.

    3. How well does the security mitigate those risks?
    If you are carrying an assult rifle, you are probably less likely to get mugged or attacked. If your weapon is concealed, when you bring it out, you probably will end the attack, if the attacker if unarmed. I don't think the ICBM would be effective at all in teh street, except maybe as a deterent, but i don't think it adds extra deterent past what the assualt rifle adds.

    4. What other risks does this security solution cause?
    Carrying the ICBM, you may not be able to use the assult rifle effectively. Carrying an assult rifle, though may be legal, will prolly get the cops called. I don't think it is legal to carry an ICBM. If you are surrounded by armed attackers, pulling out an assult rifle might get you shot.

    5. What costs and trade-offs does the security solution impose?
    Assult rifle may be expensive, ICBMs are most likely very expensive. It would take time to learn how to properly use each weapon, and time to practice those skills (in various real world situations). Carrying and assult rifle arround town might make you somewhat of a pariah. Many buisnesses may not let you in, if you are armed. Im sure you would be ocnstantly hasseled by the government for carrying an ICBM arround.

    Based on these questions, my opinion is that carrying and assult rifle and an ICBM would not be worth it as a security measure.
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