Halifax Kyushu Jutsu Bullshido
First off...what a great forum idea! I rarely get a chance to get online & most forums out there are lame & replete with keyboard warriors & so I thought i would first say it is refreshing to read some honest opinions & analytical breakdowns on the martial world.
I believe in total open disclosure and so my name is not actually unibrow but is Jean Vaillancourt & I'm a 42 year old DT Instructor out of Ottawa, Canada teaching for the Police & Public Safety Institute/Algonquin College, Public/Catholic School Boards and various gov't/corporate agencies for crisis intervention/interpersonal safety. My chief trainer & mentor, among others, was Jacques Dionne (Jack) who I trained with for over 10 years on a daily & nightly basis in his Kenpo Jitsu system. And now on to what prompted me to actually spend time online...
Halifax Bullshido; I have been attempting to ignore some shenanigans out on the east coast ever since a couple of my instructors passed away in '04 & '05 with the mindset of "whatever...do your own thing & keep us out of it" but i curiously logged on to the Kyushu Jitsu site (http://www.kyushu.budocentral.com/Ma...ck-Grading.htm) yesterday & was just floored by blatant bullshido (a great term!) posted there that I thought the world should be aware of what's up for my own peace of mind & in honor of the real Jacques Dionne- one of the most unique individuals I ever had the pleasure & pain of knowing. This club is run by the newly self-ranked "Master Frank Zinck". There seems to be an unhealthy worship/cult thing going on here. Jacks good name is being associated with crap and this has to stop.
Be warned that this may turn out to be quite lengthy because I will break down the various pages & present the facts & nobody talks to me at home anyways (grin) and i actually have a day off.
*From the site; Let's start with "Grandmaster Tadanabou Matsumoto Dionne" (celestial music here)
*Breakdown; Master Jacques Dionne (Jack) did pass away on Jan.8, 2004. That is an udisputable fact. I was at the funeral. God Bless you Jack (& your lovely family).
*From the site; "He was the Grandmaster of Kyushu Ryu Jiu-Jitsu & held a 7th degree black belt in this combat form. He started his love of the martial arts at age 5 & was handed the system in ''75 upon the death of his instructor the late Tadanori Matsumoto"
*Breakdown; Yes, Jack did indeed earn the red & white masters belt & was a respected jitsu instructor in the Ottawa area since the late 70's-80's. He was never handed any such system in "75 & I can only speculate that great liberty & assumptions are being made here (being a penchant in the martial world for crediblility through some magical lineage...just talk to some JSA yahoos...).
Jack's real history is thus; Tadanori (who is actually Tadanobu-more on this later) did exist & did train Jack from age 5 to 14. The many stories he related to me about this training which took place on the Rockcliffe Air Base parade square are just too numerous & detailed for me to ignore. This "Tad" worked as a civvy in the seargeant's messhall as a cook & apparently was indeed from Kyushu, Japan & did return there eventually after the post-war prejudices & restrictions against his people died down somewhat. After Tad left, Jack hooked up with the late Jeff David of Okiryu Jitsu & trained earnestly with him into his black belt levels. His dear wife Brenda still has these certificates unless they were tossed out in the moves after his death...she & the kids were not into the martial way at all). Jack also trained in the Judo under the Takahashi clan on Melrose Ave (Ottawa's oldest dojo) & sparred extensively & competitively with the original Chito Ryu dojo located on the french side of the river run by the late Fern Cleroux (they trained in real contact sparring..not the point tapping foam hats & mits stuff going on now in many martial sport clubs). Jack decided after Jeff's death to open his own jitsu & sparring club and named it Golden Dragon Ryu, located on Enterprise Ave. at the time. (Such a certicate is still on the wall of Ray Deschamps Karate club on Youville Dr., Orleans, Ottawa, and on the personal training dojo wall of his most senior black belt (6th) whom we shall call "Dudley" since he wants nothing to do with any of this mess and for security reasons cannot be mentioned since he is one of those guys with a red uniform, big funny hat, black boots & rides a horse). Jack was the first to admit he was the world's worst business man who couldn't organize his own dinner plate (his own words!) & so this club folded and he & a sparring partner at the time, Web Corcoran (from that respected Chito Ryu group) tried another go at it on Rideau St., Ottawa. Didn't work out either (greedy landlords etc..you know how it is). Then Jack was contacted by Jill Hopkins of the Lighthouse Program of the General Vanier Elementary School in Ottawa to teach evening Jitsu there for the local populace. This worked because Jack was paid as instructor & provided with mats & gym floor space to do so. He was there for 10 years + & is where I met & trained with him. He called his General Vanier dojo Master Dionnes Kenpo Jutsu for awhile (such a crest is on display in The Martial Artist Store in Orleans), then changed it to Ken Sei Ryu & then to Kyushu Ryu in "94 after receiving a letter from the Japanese embassy from Tad overseas. Jack never thought of himself as a "grandmaster". That was Frank's idea. I lightheartedly called him grandpuba & he called me domo (from me saying domo arigato after being floored by him in some techinque..groan, domo sensei, show me again...his usual quips during training was generally..."betcha that hurt"...i miss the guy dearly to be sure).
*From the site; "Jacques was the creator of RSAD- a self defence system for women, TACT- tactical academy of controlling techniques-a court defensive self defense system for law enforcement & lectured & taught frequently on martial arts topics, combat & history."
*Breakdown on rsad; Yes, the rsad program existed for a long while informally. Jack did do huge research on women's defense & what they were facing and was even privy to police casefiles for awhile for some true insight. Jack's actual trade was as a lockmaster for the Rideau canal water system for 20+ years and during downtime in the winters would conduct some girl's self defense/safety classes for a couple local high schools (Brookfield, Woodroffe, Woodsworth & Glebe). He also spent about 10 years bouncing in the local clubs as well for more income (Raceway Tavern, Lafayette, Roxannes, to name a couple). Jack was a walking encyclopedia on jiu-jitsu, real self defense, escort & control, & women's safety issues. With respect to rsad, there however was no actual teaching syllabus or a business registration. It was a local program only that never went international or even national (with the exception of a workshop in lobsterland Halifax). There is no published books or highschool workbooks on the matter (was a great idea though-remember what Jack said about his organizational skills). Jack simply winged it when on the floor. His seminars were awesome and attendees always left just amazed. Frank's rsad site claims it was the first women's defense course invented!-a ludicrous and totally unsubstantiated statement. Jack's first such workshop was at Brookfield highschool in '85 (the teacher has a certificate on her gym door stating so). As for the awards listed on this rsad site, the only ones Jack showed me were the Noel Kerr memorial award, some psac articles (gov't public service newsletters), the faciltex video award (for helping conduct a pressure points workshop with his friend Gerry Perrier, an early ppct instructor, for politician Sheila Copps-myself and Randy Neelin-a bb under Jack- helped out on this one as well, the National Capital & Federal Gov't awards are related to his boaters public relations work on the canal-nothing else!. I 've noticed that there is no list for the " chosen from 80 other programs as consultant & major participant in the educational documentary 'In Defense of Women"...this was the facilitex award seminar-as far as i know this documentary never came to light..if so i would be delighted to see it!- I also have this "award" which is actually a cheap participant certificate. And it was in '94, not '92. Sheesh. As for the testimonial page, the three statements (of the thousands..right) are all from the same lady & boyfriend who attended one of the workshops at Brookfield highschool (sam & dave hamel)
Breakdown on TACT; As for TACT (will it ever end?-i've never typed or been online so long in my life!-good thing i have the day off being a holiday here in the land of igloo apartments-happy Canada Day eh & don't drink that Mooshead piss beer-ugh-go for Keiths); This beast has NEVER existed as some technical study group for law enforcement training. The only police training we ever did was because one local LEO had attended some of the jitsu classes after Jack had dismantled some badass for trying to steal his car (oh & there was Josh -Franks brainwashed franchise owner/instructor who did train up to brown belt with myself & Jack at the General Vanier dojo before taking off to police college. I sincerely hope he will sometime wake up & truly support Jacks version of true budo instead).
This "tactical academy of controlling techniques" was the name i gave to the training centre I (with partner Jack) opened up at Greenboro plaza in the South Keys area, Ottawa -a stone's throw away from Jack's house. Both our names are listed on the business registration as sole proprietor owners with that business name. This club was strictly opened for political reasons & jitsu & dt's were being taught there to temporarily pay rent until the gov't grant came in to dedicate it to crisis intervention & women's self defense training.
In '97 the General Vanier dojo had closed due to the cessation of funds for the Lighthouse program of that elementary school. At that event, Jack declared he was through teaching the martial ways and retired from it but was all for myself continuing it on if i chose to. He was offered the safety mats from the school but refused them since he wasn't into it anymore & so Jill passed them to me. That same year ('97) i contacted Bob Garrow (a business consultant) to help secure funding for a training centre focusing on youth self defense, particularly the ladies. Bob's handicapped son, Doug, had been a long-time member of the GV dojo and Jack did wonders for this kid. Bob secured the help of local politician Bob Manley of the Liberal Party in this endeavor. He directed us to open up the club in his riding (which I did in the summer of "98) and that a grant would be on the way. We were all exited about this prospect of course. Jack could retire from the gov't too, collect his pension, and receive a nice salary for continuing r&d in self defense!
Then Jack had a heart attack which did indeed kill him & upon revival was extremely bitter about everything & had a personality flip for the worse. His doc said this is a common occurence in that situation (feeling very mortal etc) and that it may or may not turn around depending on the support group and of course the person themself. It never did turn around and the $50K grant to initiate things that was offered he threw it in their faces and said it wasn't enough. Gov't of course backed out, Bob threw up his hands, and I got left with the bills. So be it. So I closed down shop and carried on. Such is life. To stop anymore animosity build-up I simple wished Jack the best and we separated ways.
The profile of Jack on the TACT site is directly from the annals of Frank's 'Whoflungpooh' system-a total crock. Jack only taught at his GV dojo & we did 2 whole seminars in Halifax (which were complete disasters, but we put that up to a first time travelling seminar experience-both our credit cards got racked up on that one & Frank was indeed extremely eager & apologetic for all involved. Bob did warn us not to leave the front porch unless the flight,hotel, & seminar fees were in our hands...oh well). Gerry Perrier, lifetime friend of Jack, & early ppct instructor & also chief jitsu instructor for Therien Jitsu before being hired by Steve Anderson was the one invited to one of the first Karate College events in Virginia. We simple came along for the ride & loads of fun! The only relationship to Bruce Lee was the 25cents matinee. The other notables mentioned were also at this Karate College event & yes they did respect Jack & Gerry since they were both obvious experienced practitioners. "Nasty" had hired Gerry to teach the jitsu at his club here in Ottawa and so our respective clubs sparred together on occassion. (there's a great story of Nasty & Jack in Virginia but that's for another time). Jack did tell me that he had attended a seminar from Ed Parker though. Being an ignoramus canuck from the frozen north at the time i had had the biased view that most american ma's were only concerned with business (since i was being repeatedly hassled by that efc martial business group...), all had masters belts at 30 years old to hold up their huge waistpants, 12th level degrees and couldn't kick above their waist or punch their way out of a wet paper bag...boy was I wrong. Yes there were a handful of those morons at Virginia calling themselves professors-right, but for the most part we were treated with huge respect & had a grand ol time. All in all i'd say you boys rock & am a damn site glad you are our neighbours and not some backassward primitive culture brainwashed by religious idiocy.
*From the tact site; "NICT (nerve impact contral tactics-sound familiar??) is an internationally recognized self defense method that uses the bodies motor nerve points to imbalance, stun or redirect an attacker. This highly sought system is %95 effective, requires very little strength, and requires no martial training." "NICT is so effective it is used by law enforcement, swat teams, the military, special forces, VIP bodyguards, security personnel & bouncers"
*Breakdown; Highly sought by who?? The great spahetti monster? The picture displayed is directly from the ppct instructor manual but slightly modified by one of Jack's former youth students (Yvonna Malek) talented in artistry. After Jack & I separated he was continually contacted & worshipped by Frank and so they come up with all kinds of bullshido. Gerrys ppct manual was taken to Yvonna who they directed to change all the drawings. I had warned Jack at the time about the legalities of this but my name was mud now thanks i would guess to Frank's prodding and quest for being handed down some "true system". Again, i distanced myself form it all.
Internationally recognized by who?? doesn't say does it? no list of clients. How about the documentation of 95% effective?? Which LEO's, special forces, and military were using this?? ...Perhaps from the same planet that Josh & Frank come from where they have met everyone on it & are the undisputed deities...
From the site; " Sensei Frank Zinck became Master Zinck on May 11 as he was graded by Kancho Robyn Dionne...On May 11, 2006 Master Frank Zinck was put through a grueling eight hour testing examination. Suffering from a sever bad back and unable to do any hip throws he was asked by Kancho Robyn Dionne to put on a 30 minute display for the kids and parents that attended the final ceremony."
Breakdown; Pretty neat trick to jump from an honorary 1st degree from attending 4 seminar sessions to a masters level in a couple of years! And to be graded by your own junior students too to boot! Frank started out as a Karate guy and is very good at that kata stuff and is also really good with the kids. Everybody must understand that he started out with truly noble intentions to start training the jitsu and I think the psycho episodes started after Jack's personality flip and death. He had previously contacted various other clubs and had settled on Jack's system in '98 after various correspondences. Frank had been learning some jitsu but it was from some local yahoo who in turn had learnt it from videos (your typical armchair martial artist). Just what is it with Halifax?...salt air & excessive lobster?? Frank & a couple of young adults at the time realized they knew more than this armchair instructor simply by practicing and analyzing the various basic wristlocks etc. Jack right up front told Frank he wasn't interested in accepting some $2000 or something for a bb in some system to teach and that he had to come down and actually start training the basics and meet him and to go from there. Well he did and seemed truly sincere (it's just too weird & scary to think that he had all this bs in mind from the beginning). Following that was another week long seminar in Halifax, then another one back in the Ottawa area, and one more with "Dudley" on board too back in Halifax (which was a complete disaster). Jack wasn't interested in teaching anymore, was unhealthy as well, and simply wanted to remain a figurehead and perhaps jump in once in awhile to finetune the senior bb's. It was I and Dudley that conducted 95% of the seminars. Jack had originally asked me before Dudley to come down for the seminars but I saw the poop flowing and politely declined. Anyways, crap trickles down and Frank soon lost his adult students and he had to close shop and reopen elsewhere. Some of them actually came to Ottawa to be "regraded" by Dudley but wanted to do it without any actual testing...figure that one out...Frank obviously has the gift of gab & i suspect tapped into Robyn's grief (Jack's daughter) and talked her into the Kancho role despite no ma experience whatsoever. I notice that his son & wife have nothing to do with this, thank God. Before Jack passed away he had graded me to 3rd dan and stated that as long as i continued training & teaching regularly that every 5 years i could go up a Dan. What does one do with such a statement?? I remain at 3rd. He also left me with a slew of bb kyushu certificates with his signature on them. (Frank, if you ever see the light, you can have these for future gradings at $500 a pop with the money order made out to Brenda Dionne. Period.)
On the Matsumoto Kyushu Way of Bushido; Jack received a letter from the Japanese embassy in "97 and it was dated Showa 62, Sept.18 (1986). It was in old kanjii and took the Kyushu university a year to translate it. It has since been translated several times by other sources for other opinions and all translations state the same theme that Jack was being invited by Tadanobu to come to Japan and if he did he would be formally adopted (as per tradition) & handed over the "system". Going to Japan is extremely expensive and the late delivery of the letter probably made the whole thing moot anyways. How many Matsumoto's are there in Japan?? (like how many Smiths are there in north america?). Needless to say, Jack never went and somehow Frank is now head of the system through Robyn as Kancho. whatever. When Jack was handed the letter at the embassy he asked the clerk to translate some of it for him (not being Japanese nor knowledeable in it's language). After reading it the clerk threw it in his face and said it meant nothing. whoa. we got something here Jack said. Japanese are one of the most racist people on the planet and probably the thought that a white barbarian was being offered this sent the clerk over the edge...I have a copy of this letter and would gladly scan it & post it if so desired for those able to translate. Notice that it is not on Frank's website. How convenient. "I hope this letter finds you continuing to be restored to good health. My eyesight has started to deteriorate, before my eyesight is gone completely I was thinking that I would like to see you again. Many years have passed since we last saw each other. I remember what I taught you. With that reason in mind, I, the Tadanobu of this letter, will likely leave you the Matsumoto Style Kyushuu Way of Bushido when I die. My teachings of the fundamentals would make the beautifully pure original founder, General Matsumoto, proud I think. I would like to have that preserved (lit:protected, defended). I will certify you in these teachings that have been passed down faithfully (accurately) from generation to generation to the degree/epertise of my great grandfather. Matsumoto Kyushuu Way of Bushido is hand-to-hand fighting technique that is unique to Japan and widely known as Kyushuu Style. I am the only one who is passing on this Japanese tradition of the Kyushuu Way of Bushido. (or"I am the only one who is passing on the Kyushuu Way of Bushido in the Japanese tradition"). I want to adopt you. (lit: I am thinking I want to adopt you.) I think that by teaching Bushido to your generation, I will preserve it. (lit:protect). Please, come visit my father's Kyushuu, the island of nine prefectures, and the location of my last resting place. (N.B. "last resting place" is not the same connotation in Japanese as it is in English. In other words, this may not refer to his grave.) I suppose that I am to become a guide for you during your lifetime. (mentor?) I am praying for your good fortune. Showa 62, September 18th. Matsumoto Tadanobu"
One day I will be able to afford to go to Japan, hire some detectives and perhaps gain some more insight. Until then, I shall simply carry on.
From the site; "Today, in this gym, Kancho Robyn, Sensei Troy and myself spent the entire day testing Sensei Frank in every conceivable facet of KRJJ, including, to the best of our abilities, the ones we still donít even understand. I had the fortune of studying directly under Master Dionne for the majority of my martial arts career. I know how much he expects of his senior students and the quality of their abilities. I have trained with and known more of Master Dionneís black belt students than anyone else still practicing the art and I can say without a doubt that Sensei Zinck is absolutely the most gifted of any student Master Dionne has ever taught and he has a more intimate knowledge now of KRJJ than anyone else living on this planet. Sensei Josh Gluck"
Breakdown: 'the ones we still don't understand" ok so how does one test someone on something none of them know about?? Pretty esoteric don't you think? The only black belt Josh trained with was myself & Randy Neelin who for a long time has not been active. "than anyone else living on this planet"...?? must be nice to have the ability to meet everyone on the planet in all times. and which planet? the whole statement is of course just silly. I'm sure glad the kids approved the grading. The site's videos show an awful lot of choregraphed finger leading techniques. Jack was all about shortcuts. Finish it immediately and move on. Obviously, the system has been bastardized now.
Well there is probably more bullshido to address here but I must be moving on. I thank everyone on this forum for indulging me and I feel as though I have just removed my armour. I'll be seeing you on the other side Jack and you can toss my around some more. Peace, God Bless and all that.
a little word to the Yanks ...whooorah , we support you and bring 'em back home soon
Greetings from down in Windsor :) There is a school of Kyushu Jutsu out around my way in nearby Kingsville, its taught by the person quoted , Mr. Josh Gluck. I'm not a student of his, but I did watch one of the classes. I was surprised to see this posted as bullshido. It was an interesting read :)
unibrow... where does your club currently operate? Do OPS members train at your club?
Greetings. My public venue training is out of the PPSI combat room (Police & Public Safety Institute) at the Algonquin College-woodroffe campus, so P Bldg, Rm P121. I train with a group of swordhandlers and we start up again next wed. (July 12) from 7-9pm and we can be found there pretty well every wed and come fall, we're so packed we also do the mon. & fri.'s . We've had the pleasure of meeting ma's from all walks of life and experience here & are always glad to have more fresh blood er sparring partners.
Originally Posted by karate26
Yes that would be the same Josh. Great guy but simply had the wool put over his eyes by the halifax bs and did have legit training for awhile. So how was the class you observed? Jack's jutsu system was basically to dismantle the opponent with strikes before even attempting any fancy hippy aikido control and even then only if it is required for escort & control. In other words, when the opponent is down on the ground puking in pain, then you could control them by lifting their pinky...grin
Originally Posted by newfieguy30
Hello, when I watched the class, I saw the students warm up with an exercise where you try to avoid a punch by side-stepping. I can't recall awhole lot becuase this was almost two years ago... ONe thing I found unusual, I have a 1st Dan in Kenpo. I was told as long as I showed my Dan certificate, I could wear my black belt to class. I've always believed that if you have a black belt in one art and go to study a completely different style, you start out at white all over again. So, this seemed abit strange to hear, seeing as I was told he doesnt require students to wear belts in class. I wouldnt want to wear my kenpo blackbelt and have his students think " What is there two Black belts in this jujitsu class now?"
I never did sign up as my work schedule and the availabilty of classes (1/week) plus the daily commute. I 've been looking for a good jujitsu school since I moved to Windsor almost 6 yrs ago and thought I found it. Hence my surprise at your thread :)
Is this style an offshoot of Can Ryu Jiu Jitsu? It sounds a lot like it...
groan...Jack would be turning in his grave...this is what I mean by crap now being associated with his teachings...canryu couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag...I will now attempt to commit suicide with a pellet gun...
Originally Posted by Jaric
Hi Unibrow. I noticed you said you teach at Algonquin College. Apparently there was some kind of split or break between George Sylvain and Therien a few years back. Can you shed any light on this? (If you don't want to answer this I understand.) On another note the thread "Any Bullshido in Ottawa" has touched on Can-Ryu jiu-jitsu.
I can shed a little light on this practice, since the MDK club that I used to train at has the same practice. You get to wear your blackbelt as a courtesy Yudansha (or at least, that was our term for it.) It shows that the instructors respect the fact that you have achieved a Dan ranking in a martial arts style (and that we as students must also respect that fact,) but wouldn't actually let you teach anything anyone in our style unless you tested for the necessary rank in our style. Even if you wore your belt, and his students thought there were two Black belts in the style, they would be quickly corrected and told that you are a visiting Black belt from another style, I would imagine.
Originally Posted by newfieguy30