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  1. EmetShamash is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/16/2007 8:47pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Horse Stance FTW!!!

    Allright... I know that more than a few of you bullies out there have done some pretty long hours of horse stance. What I want to know is what you think the benefits of such an excercise are if you even think that there are any. I also want to hear from the people that say that horse stance is a go-tarded worthless waste of time.

    I have read people talking a little about this stuff but it has never been a real comprehensive talk. I am also a little more interested in people's opinion from within cma.

    Give me sources of amazing science to gaze upon. I know there has to be some good info on this stuff out there.
  2. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/16/2007 11:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's of no use because you don't activate the muscles in the lower body ways that are used in an actual fight.

    The angle of resistance is wrong; gravity lends resistance straight down, opponents don't resist in that direction.

    The amount and type of resistance is wrong; you are only resisting your own bodyweight. To make this strenuous enough to provide overload, you need to spend minutes on it. Resistance from an opponent will be short quick and explosive which means you need to condition against that sort of resistance. This means much heavier weight for much shorter duration. Fighting is never decided by who can spend the longest amount of time in a squatted position.
  3. EmetShamash is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 2:26am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    search. function. newb.
    Well I found a thread on MAP but I was hoping that there might be a little more intelligent conversation to be found here. If you can point me to the thread that you are saying I didn't find then I would be happy to read it.

    Virus, do you think that all isometric excercise is worthless to martial training? What about body weight excercise? I would think that horse stance is both. Could it be that horse stance gives you different benefits that squats do not give? Being able to do squats doesn't give you the ability to do horse stance for longer does it?
  4. dwhomp is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 2:45am


     Style: Xing-Yi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To me most if not all stance-based work is a waste of time in my eyes.

    While I havent had to do a horse stance hold in 15 years, as I recall, there was no benefit that could not be obtained elsewhere.

    You mentioned the Squat...

    The beauty of the squat is that done correctly, it works much more than just the legs. To me, it seems a waste to do an exercise that only really benefits one aspect of "the game".
  5. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 3:04am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    spent roughly 2 and a half years doing them in kung fu, 3 or so doing them in karate... nope, cant think of a single damn thing they were useful for.
  6. Asriel is offline
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    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 3:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai (BJJ hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do squats with someone on your back and your arms out straight holding a medicine ball instead.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp

  7. john joe is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 3:53am


     Style: Muay Thai/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Fighting is never decided by who can spend the longest amount of time in a squatted position.
    unless you're one of those fat sumo bastards
  8. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 5:56am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EmetShamash

    Virus, do you think that all isometric excercise is worthless to martial training? What about body weight excercise? I would think that horse stance is both. Could it be that horse stance gives you different benefits that squats do not give? Being able to do squats doesn't give you the ability to do horse stance for longer does it?
    I started this thread which addresses the "traditional" training methods.
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54596

    In response to your questions, I don't think all bodyweight exercises are useless.

    I don't see much use for isometrics in martial arts, they aren't very common in sports conditioning. You see them in stuff like arm wrestling. But I could be wrong, maybe if I thought about it I would find something that happens in combat that depends on an isometric contraction but off the top of my head I can't really think of any.

    Squats are one of the best general conditioners of the lower body. Although the angle of resistance tends to be near vertical it's still better than horse stances. They will build mass on the legs which make for a harder kick, and that mass will help protect against injury. A factor you have to take into consideration is what training equipment you have available.

    For developing power in the double-leg takedown ideally you would use a cable device that allows you to place the resistance directly behind you and attach the cables to the arms, legs and waist and have them perform the double leg movement. Such equipment is not always available and you have to work with what you've got. If you have your bog-standard gym with a squat rack then doing heavy squats, building up to explosive lifts would be a much better choice for training explosive wrestling takedowns.

    They tend to use the horse stance in striking arts and I can't think of any time you use that position in standing striking.
  9. Hands is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 6:29am


     Style: Mongolian

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look up isometric exercise and check out the disadvantages. I've held the horse stances in the past, useless. If you're in horse stance while doing some drills than it is more helpful, but holding a static stance didn't help me. I got more benefits from holding low stances while moving around.

    The horse stance has some application in throws.
  10. isol8d is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 8:30am


     Style: kung fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    they are a good conditioning exercise.
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