5/12/2007 1:07pm, #1
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
Is a 5x5 strength routine going to be suitable for an MMAist?
Or is it just going to lead to burnout?
I'm talking about the Bill Starr 5x5 program, which can be found in one of it's variations here:
First of all, a bit about my goals.
I'm currently 155lbs and wanting to significantly increase strength/power whilst not putting on any more than 10lbs in weight as i'm already around my natural fighting weight, but would be happy to cut about that much. Training for MMA so all round explosiveness is required.
My sport specific training is usually structured as follows at the moment:
Monday - Muay Thai 7-8pm, sub. Wrestling 8-9pm
Tuesday - Muay Thai 8-9pm, rolling session 9-10pm
Thursday - sub wrestling 7-8pm, Muay Thai 8-9pm, Sparring 9-10pm
Saturday - MMA 12-1:30pm
Also throw in bag work whenever i get some time, usually friday evenings.
The sample program taken from the link above is as follows:
Format - Weights x reps x sets
Workout 1 (monday) rest at least 5 min in-between squat and row sets.
Bench: 45x5, 50x5, 55x5, 60x5, 65x5
Squat: 80x5x5 (warmup 45x5)
Row: 90x5x5 (no warmup since rows follow squats) - again, we are practicing form here
Workout 2 (wednesday)
Military press: 55x5x4 (4 sets)
Pullups: Bodyweight x5x5
Workout 3 (friday)
Squat: 45x5, 55x5, 65x5, 75x5, 95x5
Row: 95x5x5 (again no warmup) - here we just added 5lbs since we are practicing the form with rubber bumper plates.
The reason i ask about the suitability/burnout is because the above post places a lot of emphasis on rest for obvious reasons, but doesn't make clear whether that is rest from weights or all activities?
My diet is good, could possibly do with more supplementation though to help aid recovery.
Last edited by spirez; 5/12/2007 1:20pm at .
5/12/2007 7:50pm, #2
"Active rest" is the rule for serious lifters; you don't have to lay around and in fact you shouldn't. On the other hand, you're working pretty hard at your MA training.
One easy thing you could do is to throw out some of the program. Bench press, for example, isn't really necessary unless you're a powerlifter for whom bench pressing is a part of your competition. For everyone else, not so much. If you're squatting and deadlifting that much, you'll see the power come up. Bench won't do much but increase your bench. Honestly, I think heavy bench pressing in my youth cost me a lot of practical pressing power (overhead pressing) by messing with my shoulders.
A lot of (American) football coaches are obsessed with big bench numbers. The old-time wrestlers and strongmen, back before athletes decided that weight-lifting is bad for you, didn't bench press as a rule.
Honestly, the program doesn't really matter much as long as it's consistent. Consistency in the program allows you to track progression; progression makes you stronger.
5/13/2007 3:00am, #3
What do you mean there is no "off season"? Do you have a fight coming up soon? I would imagine an off season is dependant on your fight schedule. For example you I have a fight coming in a few months everything up to maybe 6 weeks prior could be considered "off" right? Then you taper off lifting and focus more on cardio and such? Just a thought.
I lift 2x a week and it has not interfered with my training too much no matter if I was training 1x or 7x a week in MA. Just make sure you eat and rest to account for it. Also some supplements on top of a healthy diet would help. Eat lots and eat healthy.
5/13/2007 3:45am, #4
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
Don, about cutting out bench press, would this not lead to muscular imbalance throughout the body as a whole, based on the principle of all the muscle groups in the body working as a chain? When i think of an opponent being on top of me ie side mount or something, i want to press them off to create a little space too.
There's a quote in there somewhere about if you do not follow the program exactly then it will be nowhere near as effective, kind of like when casual meatheads don't train their legs, although i can't atest to this having never followed a strict strength program.
LI GUY 1, i suppose by saying there is no off season, i mean the fact that there is no long break from sport specific training as you get in football. I.E. in England, the soccer season is from August to May, players then have 4-6 weeks break where they won't really train soccer, before starting pre-season training and then getting into the next season.
I see your point about the time leading up to a fight, but what i don't want to do is start a hardcore lifting routine and then not be able to get the most out of my training in the evening!
5/13/2007 11:17pm, #5
I understand you not wanting to do hard weight training as it may interfere with the evening training. But it shouldn't unless you always train at a 100% balls to the wall way in MA. Which I would imagine no one does or should do.
Also, it is a trade off. To get stronger you have less time for MA. To get more skill in MA you have less time for strength. Same with cardio and everything else. I lift though because I beleive a stronger me is a better MA'ist.
5/13/2007 11:27pm, #6
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Good questing about lifting. I have been doing BJJ along with my HKD. I want to increase muscular endurance. I lift 3X a week and try to do a full body workout. Usually 3X10 on the major lifts. I was thinking of going to 3X15 to increase my endurance. Anybody else do 15 reps?
5/14/2007 7:39am, #7
I agree with the guys saying that bench isn't that important. A good substitute would be dips as it's more of a compound exercise that still works the chest.
Also, I'd personally recommend finding the time to do some overhead squats. It's an awesome lift that does wonders for core stability, back and shoulders.Dedicated to legs and the disrespecting thereof.
5/14/2007 9:01am, #8
Originally Posted by Liffguard
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Porcupine/Hollywood, FL & Parmistan via Elbonia
One thing that's also good for strenght is one-hand push ups. For most people who have never tried them, it would be a challenge to do 3-5 (which makes them almost perfect for a 5x5 routine for the novice.)Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.
My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.
New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.
t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.
The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
5/14/2007 11:02am, #9
One piece of gold from the starting strength book. It helps to be a bit more specific about your training goal and this chart lays it out.
So with that we can see how the 5x5 will effect our workout results. And we can see the same with the 3x15. So how close is your proposed workout to the results you want?
Last edited by PirateJon; 5/14/2007 11:06am at .You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
5/14/2007 12:10pm, #10Originally Posted by biomed190
I had trouble with muscular endurance in BJJ, example my arm/grip tiring out when fighting for a RNC. Bodyweight exercises cured that quick and well. I did sets of pushup, pullups, and divebombers after my weight training.