Are CMAs the most mcdojoed and bullshidoed?

**Hungsing** · Posted On: 5/14/2007 11:24pm

With this title I refer to my idea that most of CMAs' bad reputation comes from lots and lots of McDojos and Bullshido teachers who claim to be teaching a CMA. Given the fact that, judging by what I see in this site, CMAs are probably the MAs with the worst reputation and the thing to blame a TMA (or any MA that actually works *) for bad reputation is bad teachers and pretenders, the logical conclusion is that CMAs are the most bullshidoed and mcdojoed of all MAs. My question is, is that a fact?

In my country, I can think of two or three McDojoers and Bullshidoers schools (asociations) who claim to be teaching traditional CMAs. But there are also Bullshidoers and McDojoers who invented their own stuff and proudly say that. So my country wouldn't be an example of an abundance CMA named McDojos and Bullshidos. Given the premise of this thread I'd say there are lot's of places with far more things like those, but I don't know so I'd like to read some thoughts and facts about this.

With Bullshidoed and McDojoed I mean, people who started teaching and stopped training, and people who just made stuff up based on the little they learned practicing what they stole from watching others practice and used some chinese name to make it more appealing. I know of a 9th degree black belt (I'm not kidding he promotes himself that way) tai chi master who never had a master.

* I'm not saying that TMAs are good and MMAs (m as in modern but not necessarily mixed) are bad or the opposite in that case. I'm just saying TMAs truly traditional martial arts, if they survived time they probably work. But there's little available evidence to the general western public. MMAs on the other hand do have that available evidence.

**Guizzy** · Posted On: 5/14/2007 11:58pm

Bullshido? Korean arts have a very bad reputation for that also. But yeah, with the no-touch KOs and delayed death pressure points being on our side of the fence, "we" are pretty hard to beat. Ninjas, perhaps?

McDojo? I think we haven't yet got to the point where we've beaten the Japanese and Koreans on that.

CMAs are usually less formal than JMAs and KMAs, so it's not as easy to force people to pay for gradings, seminars, funny colored belts with stripes and the like.

**Wheezy** · Posted On: 5/15/2007 12:16am

Yeah I have to agree that TKD and Karate have major bullshido.. There are very good dojo/dojangs out there however some are taken over by greedy instructors, heavy commercialism, contracts, et cetera...

I'm not too sure about CMA or JMAs but I do know that KMA (TKD specifically) have it bad on bullshido and mcdojos... But don't let that stop you from taking KMA/JMA or what ever MA you want to pursue.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 5/15/2007 3:18am

Non-sparring CMA doesn't seem to be any more common than non-sparring krotty, jujutsu or Aikido. The costumes and forms tend to look more flowery and impractical though.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/15/2007 9:20am

It's the level of contact in the sparring here in the US. They spar but 20% no contact to the face isn't sparring in the Self defense vain.

Honestly, I'd rather someone just did forms than BS sparring.

**Hungsing** · Posted On: 5/15/2007 11:39am

Ok, true more KMA named bullshido and more JMA named mcdojos.

About the sparring, it's true that no contact to the face is not sparring for self-defense. In my school it depends from kwoon to kwoon, some train more full contact some train more light contact, but unless they're training for a tournament (with no face contact) most train with contact to the face. Some years ago there were combat tournaments organized by the school, and the more advanced (red and black belts) were in the full contact category. The regular sparring was point based. Unfortunately one guy who participated was already injured (yes, he went on anyway), and his injury got really worst after a match (I think a broken bone or two or something like that). He then sued the school for lots of money and won. So we don't have combat tournaments, one nucleus (there's four or five nucleus, each headed by a sifu and composed by his student's (those who are instructors) kwoons) does organize point based tournaments but that's as far as it goes.

So far the conclusion is, there are more CMA schools that do not sparr (or at least don't encourage sparring) than JMA or KMA schools with that problem and that is the main cause of the bad reputation.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 5/15/2007 12:02pm

I think TKD has you guys on the McDojos, though CMA probably has more true Bullshido in the claims the instructors make. Everywhere I've been in the US I can find half a dozen TKD schools, for every CMA school.
TKD = King of the McDojos! TAE KWON DAYCARE!

**Cullion** · Posted On: 5/15/2007 7:15pm

In the UK have CMA orgs that don't spar (or only spar in a light, crappy way), and CMA orgs that are heavily McDojo'd, but these are not so common as very mediocre TKD and japanese karate clubs that are essentially teaching MA-themed fitness routines with lots of lame, stiff kata for the older people and acrobatic cardio-kickboxing using KMA or karate terminology for the more young and vital.

CMA at it's worst that I've seen is new age cultism in larper clothing. Like the worst Aikido has to offer, but with a chinese-theme park flavour rather than a japanese one.

CMA at it's very best is hard contact striking, standup wrestling and some standing locks that has been shown to work in full contact comps allowing all these types of techniques with a bit of an unorthodox flavour.

**burningmonk** · Posted On: 5/26/2007 6:21pm

Again, up here in this part of Canada there are far more TKD and Krotty McDojo's then anything else.
There are some bullshido pretenders in CMA around here that have been teaching for years, yet learned from videos/grabbed stuff from people who knew what they were doing (or rather, partly trained ex students of people who knew what they were doing).
I think that the psuedo-mysticism that is often attached to CMA is what leaves a smell for many people. I've heard Tai Chi people make some pretty ridiculous claims--- killing people without touching them, ect. Personally, I find fighting with philosophy to be a less practical means of self defence. That being said, I have a deep respect for real Tai Chi. Certainly, any martial art that doesn't really spar is more of a ballet class than anything.

**jtkarate** · Posted On: 5/26/2007 9:31pm

TKD and Karate are easier to have alot more bullshido in them than others IMO. They have techniques that are easier to fake than others. But they are off the charts when it comes to mcdojos....5 yr old black belts and the such.

But with the CMA you can always have some that cover both . Can we say Saholin -Do?