Is a 5x5 strength routine going to be suitable for an MMAist?

[Res Judicata]

wtf..

Uh huh... :5dunce:

You don't hang around powerlifters much, do you?

Here's what Christian Thibadeau has to say:

In fact, barbell bench presses are considered by many, including myself, to be more effective at building anterior deltoid and triceps size than pectoral size. Have you ever analyzed the anterior deltoid and triceps development of a champion bench presser? If so, you'll quickly realize how massive they can become.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460183

Here's what Lucas Wold of www.beastathletics.com has to say:

- The bench press is mainly a shoulder and triceps lift, not a chest lift. Unless you take a wide grip and flare your elbows. (Side note: don’t take a wide grip and flare your elbows

http://ezinearticles.com/?Bench-Press---23-Fantastic-Tips!&id=555024

If you want to hit the pectoral significantly with a flat bench press you need to do either wide-grip bench (bye, shoulders) or guillotine (neck press) benches (use a spotter).

[Teh El Macho]

What is an overhead squat is that like a shoulder/military press thing?

It's a great exercise. Can't do them well with a barbell because of my wrists (I'm most likely doing something wrong... oh well.) As a result, I use dumbbells instead... at least until I get a good feel for these squats with the barbell.



Check the following links, it has a good information on overhead squats, specialy at Dan Jonh's website.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...headSquat.html

http://danjohn.org/overhead.html

[Res Judicata]

Dan John is the man. I wish I had someone like that as a coach or gym teacher etc. He's awesome.

[Teh El Macho]

Res, I'm confused. I can see (more or less) how flaring the elbows during a BP can **** the shoulders up. My shoulders are all messed up. That's the only way I've learned to do them all these years. And dips don't do **** for me, even weighted dips.

The only things that really makes me feel I'm working my pecs are push ups till cows come home, one hand push ups and cables. However, for obvious reasons, that won't help me increase my max. But with bench presses, my shoulders give in waaaaaay before I feel anything on my chest.

I usually work alone (or with my g/f who is a tiny tinie lady), so no spotter for me most of the time. Thus, guillotine BPs are out for most of the time. Would powerlifting BP be a good alternative to hitting the pecs? What other things I can use to work the pecs.

-- EDIT --

Dan John is the man. I wish I had someone like that as a coach or gym teacher etc. He's awesome.

I wish I've had someone explain these things when I started lifting. All I had was Ironman Magazines. :tard: :eusa_doh: :seppuku:

[Res Judicata]

Res, I'm confused. I can see (more or less) how flaring the elbows during a BP can **** the shoulders up. My shoulders are all messed up. That's the only way I've learned to do them all these years. And dips don't do **** for me, even weighted dips.

The only things that really makes me feel I'm working my pecs are push ups till cows come home, one hand push ups and cables. However, for obvious reasons, that won't help me increase my max. But with bench presses, my shoulders give in waaaaaay before I feel anything on my chest.

I usually work alone (or with my g/f who is a tiny tinie lady), so no spotter for me most of the time. Thus, guillotine BPs are out for most of the time. Would powerlifting BP be a good alternative to hitting the pecs? What other things I can use to work the pecs.

-- EDIT --

I wish I've had someone explain these things when I started lifting. All I had was Ironman Magazines. :tard: :eusa_doh: :seppuku:

Well, powerlifting bench will help you up your max, save your shoulders etc. But as for aesthetic pec development it won't do much. My chest development isn't exactly great, so I'm not really the person to answer this but ...

Pushups are excellent pec developers. You can do them on one or two balls, leg elevated, etc. Also Flyes, pec deck, the usual bodybuilder stuff. The pecs respond to internal rotaton movements. Also the dumbell bench starting in the netutral position and rotatiing in as you lift to parallel hits my pecs pretty well, and some people swear by incline benches.

I've heard good things about this program: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1236824

You may also be having another problem. Your body is lazy it will use the strongest muscles to do the job, so when you do an exercise involving multiple muscle groups, the strongest tends to take over. So, if you have strong delts and you bench, your delts tend to take over. It's one of the downsides of doing primarily compound lifts (albiet a small downside).

[Teh El Macho]

Well, powerlifting bench will help you up your max, save your shoulders etc. But as for aesthetic pec development it won't do much. My chest development isn't exactly great, so I'm not really the person to answer this but ...

Pushups are excellent pec developers. You can do them on one or two balls, leg elevated, etc. Also Flyes, pec deck, the usual bodybuilder stuff. The pecs respond to internal rotaton movements. Also the dumbell bench starting in the netutral position and rotatiing in as you lift to parallel hits my pecs pretty well, and some people swear by incline benches.

I've heard good things about this program: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1236824

You may also be having another problem. Your body is lazy it will use the strongest muscles to do the job, so when you do an exercise involving multiple muscle groups, the strongest tends to take over. So, if you have strong delts and you bench, your delts tend to take over. It's one of the downsides of doing primarily compound lifts (albiet a small downside).

Sweet. I'm taking notes on all of this, and I'm going to try the powerlifting BP. I do push ups by the hundreds but that won't make me stronger. I certainly want to increase my max while at the same time develop the pecs for aestetic purposes. Genetics may end up dictating if I can do that :P

I need to be careful with internal rotation though. I'm seeing a massage therapist and working on my external rotators. What I originally thought was a problem with my forearms ended up being a problem starting on my shoulders blades AND a very weakened external rotators.

Sorry for derailing from the original topic (5x5 routine), but I needed that clarification. Thanks.

[Equipoise]

You don't hang around powerlifters much, do you?

Here's what Christian Thibadeau has to say:


http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460183

Here's what Lucas Wold of www.beastathletics.com has to say:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Bench-Press---23-Fantastic-Tips!&id=555024

If you want to hit the pectoral significantly with a flat bench press you need to do either wide-grip bench (bye, shoulders) or guillotine (neck press) benches (use a spotter).

Go on t-nation and post saying you disagree with their methodology and see what happens...

While I do have respect for Thidbadeau, he's using opinion versus actually kinesiology. There is maximal contraction for the pectorals within a bench press, esp at maximum rest or in another words, a quallifying lift.

Another factor is the insertion points on various persons and where as you said, they lift from on the bar, IE hand placement. Different persons are going to be handle more stress in certain areas with less problem focuses upon their shoulders, etc because of these person to person deviations.

[kick]

It's a great exercise. Can't do them well with a barbell because of my wrists (I'm most likely doing something wrong... oh well.) As a result, I use dumbbells instead... at least until I get a good feel for these squats with the barbell.



Check the following links, it has a good information on overhead squats, specialy at Dan Jonh's website.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...headSquat.html

http://danjohn.org/overhead.html

I have never even heard of them before, and my father in law is a power lifter.

I am going to try some this week.

Good articles, thanks man.