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  1. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2007 8:31am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Neck/Trap EXTREME PAIN

    Hi all,
    I am in som serious pain and need some ideas before I go to the doc. For a brief history, here is the closest description of my pain:


    A few years ago I started doing archery once or twice a month. After a while I noticed a painful knot in my right trapezius, about 2 or 3 inches below my shoulder line. I tried massaging it out, but it persisted, and even when I stopped doing archery it remained. Now whenever I am hunched over for more than a few minutes (some aspects of my job require this) the spot hurts, sometimes with a burning sensation. It feels like the muscle has degenerated at the spot. If I rub the spot hard, I can feel the area underneath moving around, like a hard mass of something. I can just picture how messed up that spot of muscle must look.

    That wasn't me, but it was the best description I could find. I had symptoms like this for a few years. I went to a back specialist who said it was probably some neck strain whiwh was referring pain to my back. Well he have me a Rx for Naproxin and some PT. The Naproxin did nothing and I could never really tell if the PT was working.

    This past weekend (saturday) the pain came back with a vengence worse than ever before during my judo class. We were doing light and easy ground work and I just had to stop. There was a little pain when I woke up but nothing serious. I haven't been able to sleep and sitting is killing me. I got tingling in my arms and spasm in my front right deltoid and tricep. The last thing I did before this pain was exercises on thusday. (Since muscle pain usually shows up tow days later I am guessing it was thursdays exercises. I had been having trouble with the upright row:

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...prightRow.html

    So i tried to do the lateral raise:

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html

    Could this have been the culprit?

    The only other exercises I did that day were:

    Close Grip Pulldown http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...pPulldown.html

    StraightLegDeadLift
    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...gDeadlift.html


    BentOverRow
    Bicep Curls

    Theo nly new exercisew was that lateral raise. I only did 12.5lbs, but I wonder if I torqued something.
  2. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2007 8:58am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dude, I'm on my way to work, so I'll have to write something more complete later today. But it's very likely the front raises aggravated an existing condition in your traps. I actually had (still do) a similar knot on my right trap (around the same area as you do), and a few others in the shoulder blade (cramped teres minor and infraspinatus).

    I originally had problems in my forearms, knots and crap, but after seeing a massage therapist that worked on my shoulder blades and bicipital groove, it is getting better. You need to massage it, and ice the crap out of that area. Better yet, get a massage therapist to do that for you. If it's really bad, you will not be able to fix it yourself. You need a massage therapist or chiro, someone that KNOWS how and what to massage.

    I'd say my back and neck is 80% better after just three massage sessions (30 minutes, 30 minutes and 90 minutes), and I can now lift dumbells without cringing in pain (my forearms still hurt, but the are much better). You can read more about how I've been dealing with that crap (somewhat successfully here.)

    It's very likely that your internal rotator/subcapularis (and perhaps your pectoralis minor, teres major, and who knows what else in your shoulders) are stiff and have contracted, constantly pulling a weakened external rotators (infraspinatus and teres minor)

    You need to stop doing anything involving your shoulders for the time being. Let your muscles and ligaments relax and heal.

    First things first, do the following stretches

    external rotators:

    http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Infras...roomstick.html

    internal rotators:

    http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/Subsca...roomstick.html

    Then lightly work your external rotators (treat this as if you are in rehab)

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...lRotation.html

    Apply ice and rest the area, take ibuprofen, and if you can, get a massage therapist to work on your back. I will not be surprised if you end up having to do 2 or 3 massage therapy sessions just to get that thing working.

    -- EDIT --

    Actually, let me reiterate the point. You will need a massage therapist or a chiro to look at that. Self-massage won't cut it.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 5/01/2007 9:00am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  3. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2007 11:05am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the info. It sounds spot on. My back Dr can't see me until next wednesday...I am hoping my PCP can Rx some PT or chiro for me.

    I just wish i knew exactly what caused it.
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/01/2007 11:31am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is never a single root cause. It's a combination of things that occur again and again over a period of time. Somewhere during your training, you pulled something or something got "knotted" on your traps, and it was never taken care of. A ligament was slowly irritated for overuse. Or it could simply be a bad position at work (.ie. sitting in front a PC for hours).

    If you can afford it, just for $$$ for a massage therapist from the yellow pages, someone who does deep tissue masssage (not swedish or relaxation massage, but deep tissue.)

    When you contact one, tell him specifically that you have an injured trap (and possible an injured/cramped infraspinatus (the muscle right over the shoulder blade) and teres minor (the muscle at the edge of the shoulder blade and armpit), and that you are in need of something along the lines deep tissue massage, sports massage, deep muscle therapy.

    Some Ayurvedic massage therapists also work well. My neck got twisted during training, and it was an Ayurvedic massage therapy session (and lots of icying) that took care of that.

    But for the time being, ice the **** out of that area. Ice it, ice it, ice it. Don't work out, no push ups, no overhead presses, no dumbell raises, no nothing. Do the stretches and the re-hab for the teres minus and infraspinatus. Also search in exrx.net for the trap, delts and neck muscles and for prescribed stretches here:

    http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html (NeckExercises to the right)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2007 9:12am

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    EL Macho..many many thanks.

    Got my massage. It did not help the injury itself, but it helped stop the 'injury noise' created by the original injury. It helped me be able ot move my neck and walk upright. I am going back next week.

    The prognosis is that I have a herniated or bulging disk. Take prednazone for 6 days and continue doing what I was doing. The doctor would not even entertain my theories on what caused the injury. This kind of annnoyed me, but it is not like I can RNC my doc.
  6. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2007 12:42pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah I think so. The crazy thing is that the Dr told me to go back to my usual activities until it is intolerable...with the amount of pain i am in...that is just crazy
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2007 1:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Take a few months off. Really. And what the doc told you is puzzling. I've never heard of a PCP telling his patient to go back to the activities that caused the condition to occur in the first place.

    Really, just take a few months off under the care of a PT or chiro (hopefully a chiro with experience in sports.) A PT may be able to prescribe a workout program to not just rehab but to strenghten the areas and ameliorate the symptoms. You gotta take care of your herniated disk like a suckling baby for a while :tongue6:
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/03/2007 1:14pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am just going to lift 5lbs and stuff like that just to keep my body moving. The Dr is from one of the top back and spine places in the country...He said that there is probably no one activity which brought on the injury...but, it seems like the disc is just a guess. It may be just muscle strain...

    The whole thing is so frustrating. I go back in 2 weeks. Then I will re-asses. I might just do the kickboxing classes without sparring as soon as the pain simmers. My gym is cool in that I can go light, take breaks, etc if I need to. Definitely no judo :(

    Shitty part is I am trying to slim down...this puts a real kink in the whole thing since now I have to cut down on calories...
    Last edited by cyrijl; 5/03/2007 1:25pm at .
  9. andrewa is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/05/2007 12:38pm


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cyrijl, do you have a desk job?? If you do what is your posture like work? If you don't have a desk job do you spend long periods on your feet and have to work with your shoulders hunched over?
  10. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2007 5:51pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have (had) horrible posture...i started pt a few months back so that has improved quite a bit. I am constantly working to fix it...i am a WIP right now (work in progress)
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