230676 Bullies, 3701 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 28
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 5:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    San Shou/Sanda

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    I'm looking forward to researching up on TCC and learning more about it.
    One of the reasons that TCC has done so well in UK amateur San Shou is because of the greater focus on wrestling and takedowns.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  2. Pandinha is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    8,751

    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 5:27pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    One of the reasons that TCC has done so well in UK amateur San Shou is because of the greater focus on wrestling and takedowns.
    Interesting, this is another whole world opening for me.

    What is stopping San Shou from becoming MMA? Not inasmuch as the system, but the actual ranges of fighting.

    Striking/Kicking
    Pummeling/Grappling
    Ground Fighting
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  3. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 5:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    Interesting, this is another whole world opening for me.

    What is stopping San Shou from becoming MMA? Not inasmuch as the system, but the actual ranges of fighting.

    Striking/Kicking
    Pummeling/Grappling
    Ground Fighting
    Some people prefer San Shou as a spectator sport to MMA because the requirement to keep it standing keeps things dynamic and easy to see what's going on. At the higher skill levels, you get to see a whole fight of big-ass throws & takedowns and exchanges of powerful blows.

    You've probably seen this before, but it's nice stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcnT3Mx-ZTU

    San Shou rules are based upon the old Lei Tai challenge format (and in San Shou you can still score by forcing your opponent out of an area. Until recently one UK San Shou promoter still provided a raised platform surrounded by mats for the fights).

    My personal opinion as to why the chinese chose a 'no ground' format for their public competitive pressure testing of their various MAs (and why those MAs don't have much, if anything, in the way of ground fighting) has been posted in semi-troll form throughout this thread.
    Last edited by Cullion; 5/09/2007 5:54pm at .
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  4. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,857

    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 7:19pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Some people prefer San Shou as a spectator sport to MMA because the requirement to keep it standing keeps things dynamic and easy to see what's going on. At the higher skill levels, you get to see a whole fight of big-ass throws & takedowns and exchanges of powerful blows.

    You've probably seen this before, but it's nice stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcnT3Mx-ZTU

    San Shou rules are based upon the old Lei Tai challenge format (and in San Shou you can still score by forcing your opponent out of an area. Until recently one UK San Shou promoter still provided a raised platform surrounded by mats for the fights).

    My personal opinion as to why the chinese chose a 'no ground' format for their public competitive pressure testing of their various MAs (and why those MAs don't have much, if anything, in the way of ground fighting) has been posted in semi-troll form throughout this thread.
    I really like that video

    However there's nothing in San Shou I see that isn't in MMA comps also. and as far as ignoring the ground the argument could be made that if you are on the receiving end of a good slam and the opponent comes in to finish you off, which will happen in both 1 on 1 and multiple opponent fights then you need the ground work component in both cases.
  5. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 4:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Soju - Joe
    I really like that video

    However there's nothing in San Shou I see that isn't in MMA comps also.
    The techniques are all allowed in MMA but being forced to keep yourself standing makes for different strategy and the standup focus means the competitors standup is more highly developed.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  6. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,857

    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 6:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    The techniques are all allowed in MMA but being forced to keep yourself standing makes for different strategy and the standup focus means the competitors standup is more highly developed.

    Again I agree and disagree

    I would say you just described Chuck Lidell's entire fight strategy. His whole strategy is to keep it standing and incase of getting taken down not to be held stand and stand back up.

    San Shou fighters might have more developed stand up compared to MMA fighters with a grappling back ground but guys like Chuck and Cro Cop to name a few have as good if not better stand up.

    So there's nothing inherent in MMA against having great stand up ability.
  7. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 8:32am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Soju - Joe
    Again I agree and disagree

    I would say you just described Chuck Lidell's entire fight strategy. His whole strategy is to keep it standing and incase of getting taken down not to be held stand and stand back up.

    San Shou fighters might have more developed stand up compared to MMA fighters with a grappling back ground but guys like Chuck and Cro Cop to name a few have as good if not better stand up.

    So there's nothing inherent in MMA against having great stand up ability.
    No, it's just not a hallmark of fighters who base style was BJJ. Chuck isn't. Neither's cro cop. Sure, they picked up ground later. Not their speciality.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  8. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    4,389

    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 9:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    No, it's just not a hallmark of fighters who base style was BJJ. Chuck isn't. Neither's cro cop. Sure, they picked up ground later. Not their speciality.
    actually chuck was a competitive wrestler in the past (collegiate i believe)
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  9. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 10:36am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist
    actually chuck was a competitive wrestler in the past (collegiate i believe)
    That's why his takedown defence is good so he can keep things standing and beat them to death.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  10. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,857

    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 10:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    No, it's just not a hallmark of fighters who base style was BJJ. Chuck isn't. Neither's cro cop. Sure, they picked up ground later. Not their speciality.

    Wait I am confused this thread is all over the place.

    I thought we were talking restrictive rule sets of BJJ and MMA training versus sef defense training and that San Shou was held up to be more realistic because people aren't taking ti to the ground and therefore are forced to have better stand up than an MMA fighter?

    Therefore MMA fighters who are BJJ based are still dealing with striking and therefore something or other

    I'm pretty lost by now as to what my point is.
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.