Originally Posted by Iscariot
I'll post it after I feel he has had a sufficient chance to respond. I don't want to give an opportunity for an excuse not to.
Hey guys, in case you missed it a new and very good thread just opened up on FSD here http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56097
Fang Shen Do IVb: "Stepping up"
Tonight, six Fang Shen Do students and one Sifu fought in a Muay Thai event at TriStar in Montreal. I attended and will run down the results for you. I didn't manage to film it, but there were a great many cameras in the audience so I have no doubt these fights will wind up on the great intarweb somewhere in the near future.
I will try to be as balanced as possible, but I should make clear my own relevant thoughts on FSD first. I think FSD techniques do not have nearly as much power as well thrown muay thai techniques. Their punches' power comes from the arms. The kicks are of the snapping-lower-leg variety (all quads and abductors); they lack hip, the supporting foot is flat, they're usually thrown from the lead leg (the right if you're right handed), and aim to impact with the top of the foot. The knees are all hip-flexors, no hip-thrust (glutes) or supporting-foot calf. I also think they don't practice combinations enough.
All of that said, I was cheering for most of the FSD guys because they're pretty cool one on one and I wanted to see them do well, despite being an apostate.
Let's get to the fights. There were at least four gyms involved; tristar, fsd, h2o, and something like "thai jiujitsu laval" (TJL). There may also have been another but I didn't catch the name.
I missed the first three because of the fucking metro, so I'm going on what I was told by the guy at the counter.
1. 150lbs: James Stockwell (FSD) vs. David Massicote (FSD)
An all FSD bout. The guy at the counter said it was really entertaining (in a non-sarcastic way). Result: draw.
I don't know the judges scores, but it's funny to think of muay thai judges sitting down to a long night of muay thai only to have to score a kung fu fight right off the bat.
2. 150lbs: Tod Wailoo (h20) vs Brent McGregor
Some guys I don't know. Didn't get the result.
3. 162lbs: Derek Coroll (TriStar) vs Sebastien "The Beast Man" LucMai (FSD)
30-27 for Derek on all three judges score cards. Apparently it was relatively even but Sebastien looked gassed.
4. 178lbs: Simon Sophanna (TJL) vs Emmanuel Provoste (FSD)
I don't remember a lot about this one because I was trying to find a place to stand. (it was fucking packed). Unanimous Decision (by three different scores) for Emmanuel. Simon had a bloody nose by the end and both looked tired.
5. 177lbs: Alex Bonmiller (h20) vs Ryan Parsons (FSD)
Ryan owns one of the FSD schools in Montreal but trains at Montreal West under sBP. He's a brown-sash, black stripe. He looked a lot bigger than his opponent; I know he cut a lot. This was a very good fight. It was a lot less of a clusterfuck than the others. Ryan was patient and caught Alex often. Ryan generally shut down anything Alex tried to do, and countered effectively. He was also coming out on top in the clinch all the time.
Result: Majority decision (30/27, 29/28, 28/28) for Ryan. Alex was clapping for him at the end, which I thought was classy. Ryan looked really good in this fight.
(See post #102 for Alex's version of events)
bouts 6, 7, and 8 all featured people from non-FSD gyms. They were really entertaining but probably few people here care.
On to the main card (the FSD crowd is getting louder and is very energetic):
9. 200lbs: Kevin Lan (h20) vs Ziad Jaber (FSD)
Ziad looked ill-at-ease for the first round. Kevin was blocking what he was throwing and countering well with shots that looked pretty powerful. Ziad had a bit of an "oh ****" look on his face. Kevin was controlling the ring completely.
By the second round, Kevin seemed to have gassed and Ziad relaxed. Ziad started catching Kevin with body kicks and punches. He was also throwing him around in the clinch. He didn't look like he was doing a lot of damage but Kevin continued to gas even more so it was clearly Ziad's round.
By the third round it was all Ziad. He even caught Kevin square on the mouth with his shin. If it had been a solid thai kick it would have ended the fight I think. Not to say Kevin can't take a shot. He took quite a few. I should say Kevin was still throwing punches, but they didn't look like they had a lot on them or were very targeted. Ziad was having his way in the clinch landing uppercuts and a few knees (but mostly throwing hands).
Result: all three judges scored it 30-27 for Ziad. (crowd goes wild)
(See post 95 for Kevin's version of events.)
Ladies and Gentlemen, your main event of the evening:
10. 211lbs: Moustafa Elzanaty (TriStar) vs Sifu Brian Paquette (FSD)
Firstly, the energy by this point was pretty nuts. There were three sections of seats, one off each side of the ring except the one with the judges. The FSD section (they packed a whole third of the audience) was really energetic. They were fired up by their general success over the evening and in particular by Ziad's win. They were yelling "si-fu! si-fu!" etc. The rest of the croud started getting into it, countering with "moose! moose!" The atmosphere was pretty cool.
sBP is big. He's like 6'6" and 240 or something. I really don't think he was 211. I think that was Moustafa's weight. Moustafa was tall too, maybe 6'2", and was a lot more cut. He seemed really relaxed before the fight.
The bell rings. A few tentative jabs are thrown. sBP has his hands low and his face sticking out. A minute in, Moustafa has won all the notable exchanges. I don't think sBP landed anything properly other than a body kick. Another exchange occurs and Moustafa hits sBP with something that has him wobbly. He's wobbling all over the ring as Moustafa tries to chase him down. By 1:45 or so, sBP's nose is seriously bloodied and maybe broken. His mouth is hanging open. The ref calls time to fix sBP's face. The rest of the round is all Moustafa; he lands some wicked knees from the clinch and continues to outbox sBP. By the end of the round sBP is bloodied up again. It should be noted that Moustafa hit sBP with a solid right hook right after the bell. The ref said something and he may have had a point taken off but no matter, it was for sure a 10-8 round and Moustafa's still pretty.
Round two. Moustafa is blocking everything sBP is throwing and countering well. sBP is throwing wildly and is still wobbly on his feet. Moustafa continues to pick him apart and own the clinch. Once again, quickly, sBP's nose is gushing. At 1:37 the ref calls time for sBP's corner to fix his face. sBP's corner stops the fight.
Result: Moustafa Elzanaty by TKO (corner stoppage) at 1:37 of round 2.
Moustafa was pretty sick, I have to say. There were murmors about late hits, but it's academic. He was owning the fight, late hits or no. That was the only fight that ended early all night other than the only female fight. (the h20 girl, Terrie Schaver, owned the TJL girl, Nathalie Lariviere, who didn't answer the bell in the second). The crowd was good about it; the FSD section aplauded the anouncement and then cheered "si-fu" a bit more before everything died down.
All in all, FSD did really well, especially considering it was the first fights of most of these guys and that they were facing more powerful arsenals all night. What I'm talking about, power wise, really came through in the last fight I think. sBP had like 30lbs on Moustafa but got destroyed. Then again, I don't think sBP has ever competed before and Moustafa certainly looked like he had. I'm sure sBP will learn a great deal from the experience.
Regardless, props to him for stepping up, and for organizing the whole thing with his students. He took FSD in a new direction singlehandedly, and deserves major congratulations. sSP, who cornered FSD fighters, knew about this later than I did (so he said).
The whole night was absurdly entertaining. Well worth the 20$. The energy of the crowd contributed greatly. Many props to everyone who stepped up. Let's hope this marks the beginning of a new and better era for FSD. (I could be wrong, but I don't think I saw a single chung choi.)
If anyone else was there please feel free to add. I'm sure I'm not remembering things entirely accurately. And if you happen to know the girl in the white pants and pink polo with the short bleached hair and headband, please give me her number.
Last edited by myrmecophilous; 6/17/2007 10:41am at .
Very nice writeup. Wondering if anyone knows the time-in-grade for the various fighters?
And big props to the fighters, win and lose. That takes balls.
Hey guys last night was interesting to say the least. myrmecophilous is right i was gassed. I gassed after like 30 seconds of the first round. I tried to keep pressure on my opponent but his kicks were very strong and he was moving away well and clinching when he had to. At the end of the second round I remember being hit by like 3-5 punches to the head undefended, nothing hurt me but I knew he had taken that round and I would have to come back strong in the third. My body just wasnt responding in the third round, and he was in better shape and he dominated me although i dont remember being kicked on the chin by a kick. I will get the video soon and upload the fight.
Not to nitpick or anything but Tod Wailo, Alex Bon-Miller and myself do not train at Tristar, we train at H2O Martial Arts Academy (www.h2oma.com)
I met a lot of the Fang Shen Do fighters and they were all very very nice people. Their supporting crowd was a bit of an annoyance but I guess its what to be expected. Its in my opinion that the Fang Shen Do guys fight exactly like any other fighter at any gym. At this level of skill and experience we all have terrible technique, no combos, and tend to brawl too much when it comes down to fight time.
myrmecophilous, did i meet you when you were there?
I am assuming here that if any 'kung fu' actually happened, we'd have heard about it.
props to all the fighters! sounds like it was an awesome event... and FSD seem to have done well!
it's good to hear the changes that FSD is doing, despite whatever happened in the past, past that's may not be linked to the current senior instructors.
i heard not so good stuff about the thai jutsu jutsu school... maybe worth a look in the future for investigation.
I'm not 100% sure that the "world's best martial arts system" performing adequately at that level constitutes doing 'well', but this is a major step, and I'm glad they took it.
Originally Posted by fanger123
I'd say the fighters seem to have done well, and their respect levels have gone way up, but the system? Well, TheGoodBoy explained it better than I.
Any Phon Sao 15s?
Maybe the kick I was talking about just looked that way from where I was sitting. Maybe you blocked it and I didn't see. Video will be cool; are all the fighters getting a copy of the video of all the fights? I noticed there was an official-looking camera that I figured belonged to the promoter. If I remember correctly, it looked like Ziad's "front-thrust" kicks (aka teep) were pretty effective.
Originally Posted by The Good Boy
Sorry about getting your gym wrong. For some reason I thought that h2O was the name of TriStar's fighting team, like how the fighters at GAMMA all wear canadian top team stuff. I fixed it in my post.
The crowd's always annoying when they're cheering the other guy. :)
We didn't meet, no. Although everyone was cool with/to me I was a little uncomfortable around all the FSD people so I left pronto, and I didn't see you beforehand.
Only front thrusts, roundhouses, jabs, crosses, hooks, uppercuts and knees so far as I saw.
Originally Posted by n00b
You asked about their ranks. I'm pretty sure all of them are at least green sash. Sebastien is green, David was green/brown-stripe, James wore a grey sash so I don't know, Emmanuel I don't remember, Ryan was brown/black-stripe, Ziad was green/brown-stripe and sBP black, obviously.
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