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  1. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2007 6:07pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    N00b Mount question

    Though I've been doing Judo for a little while now, and I'm pretty comfortable with all the pins, something that I continually suck at is the mount position, or in Judospeak tate-shiho gatame. While I have asked my instructors for help they really haven't been able to so...

    Here is my problem: I get mount position, but I always get upa'ed and rolled, which isn't terrible because they just get into my guard, but I'd like to keep the pin and/or go for an armbar. I feel stupid posting this because mount is a position where you should have a lot of control, but it seems like 9 times out of ten I get bridged and rolled.

    And yes again, this shows why Judo is < BJJ on the mat.

    Thanks for your help,

    An Idiot
    Last edited by Mas; 5/10/2007 1:15am at .
  2. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2007 9:17pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are you getting upa'd literally as soon as you get to mount? This is the correct time for them to upa by the way.... but anyways, are you making an attempt to stabilize your mount as soon as you obtain it? a good way to do this is to wrap your right arm under their neck, keep your head to the left of theirs and a bit higher, and post out with your left arm. Keep your weight to their left to prevent being rolled to the right, and have a strong post so they can't roll you to the left. While you're doing this keep your legs tightly tucked under theirs so they can't shrimp out either.

    Once you feel stable, start working your way up, still keeping your weight offset and an arm posting or ready to post. Then look to see what they're giving you.


    I was running into the same problem but slowing it down a bit and taking care to stabilize the position immediately really helped me out.
  3. vinhthekid is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2007 10:59pm


     Style: BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    as a person who focuses heavily on his mount top game, as soon as i get mount, i superman, post my hands out and pin them to the floor hard. by putting your hands out to the mat and throwing your weight forward, it makes it much more difficult to roll you. also, if you can do it, grapevine your legs with theirs immediately.

    the above of course, is just to initially secure mount. once you have that, kill the grapevine, continue to post and shuffle upwards into highmount. from there, you should have a decent change at a kimura/americana or you can move to s-mount and armbar.
  4. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 3:24pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well that makes a bit more sense now, I think what I'm doing is staying too low, and I really do have to work on my stability, I grapevine and post, and I usually do go for s-mount or armbar, but I just for some reason cannot seem to secure low mount.

    Like I said I usually can get mount, but I don't secure it well then go to highmount, so I usually just get bridged and rolled. Or get upa'ed straightaway.

    Thanks for your help Vinh and Blue, I'm definitately going to work on your suggestions.
  5. goosetherumfoodle is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 3:28pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do the same thing, superman and grapevine right away to get stability in mount. But I always hold the grapevine really hard for a second to see if he has weak legs and will tap. For some reason I find tapping someone to a grapevine really satisfying, maybe because it's such a ***** thing to do.
  6. auschip is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 3:44pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by goosetherumfoodle
    I do the same thing, superman and grapevine right away to get stability in mount. But I always hold the grapevine really hard for a second to see if he has weak legs and will tap. For some reason I find tapping someone to a grapevine really satisfying, maybe because it's such a ***** thing to do.
    People tap from being grapevined? I can't imagine what would happen if someone got them in lockdown.
  7. JKDChick is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 3:51pm

    staff
     Style: JKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What weight are you at? Are you fighting at the bottom of weight class? I've found and so have some of my smaller mat mates, that mount isn't a dominate position if you're outwieghed. I atually have better luck holding/subbing from cross side.
    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!
  8. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 6:57pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mas
    Well that makes a bit more sense now, I think what I'm doing is staying too low, and I really do have to work on my stability, I grapevine and post, and I usually do go for s-mount or armbar, but I just for some reason cannot seem to secure low mount.

    Like I said I usually can get mount, but I don't secure it well then go to highmount, so I usually just get bridged and rolled. Or get upa'ed straightaway.

    Thanks for your help Vinh and Blue, I'm definitately going to work on your suggestions.
    After you work on it a little while, you get used to the upa motion, kind of like riding a bucking bull. You can get good enough to ride it out so you aren't rolled. Someone who is going to bridge and roll you has to trap one of your arms. Usually you can swim out of an attempt to trap one of your arms and post up top. If you can't, you know which way they are going to roll you by which arm is trapped, and can shift your weight over to that side by hipping over there or posting out your foot to that side to block. Do some drills with a partner just working on live mount - they try to bridge and roll, you try to keep mount. That is the best way to improve.

    Finishing from mount to me is a little harder than other positions. Arm bar has a specific sequence how I was taught. Lean your chest out one side and trap an arm pinning it to one side across the chest when you move your chest back to center. Work your near knee on that side up to above the head. At the same time, insert an arm in the crook of elbow. Lift far arm and insert far leg underneath. Move knee above head and put leg over head, squeeze knees. From here you will have to break his grip on his arm blocking the armbar. You can do that by prying with a foot. Isolate the arm, squeeze knees, thumb up, lean back. If necessary, arch hips to finish.
  9. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2007 10:28pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDChick
    What weight are you at? Are you fighting at the bottom of weight class? I've found and so have some of my smaller mat mates, that mount isn't a dominate position if you're outwieghed. I atually have better luck holding/subbing from cross side.
    I'm fighting at the bottom of my weight class (5'9 180), and the guys I roll with are usually larger than me. I just want to have a better mount so I can get a more locked in s-mount, and I really like going to armbar from mount.


    Quote Originally Posted by chingythingy
    Finishing from mount to me is a little harder than other positions. Arm bar has a specific sequence how I was taught. Lean your chest out one side and trap an arm pinning it to one side across the chest when you move your chest back to center. Work your near knee on that side up to above the head. At the same time, insert an arm in the crook of elbow. Lift far arm and insert far leg underneath. Move knee above head and put leg over head, squeeze knees. From here you will have to break his grip on his arm blocking the armbar. You can do that by prying with a foot. Isolate the arm, squeeze knees, thumb up, lean back. If necessary, arch hips to finish.
    Thanks this actually helps a lot, I usually just get it by doing the hands on chest and spin at the same time hooking the arm, I definately need to use my knees more on the ground, I usually rely on my arms too much.

    Thanks for all the help guys.
    Last edited by Mas; 5/09/2007 10:32pm at .
  10. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2007 12:51am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mas
    Here is my problem: I get mount position, but I always get upa'ed and rolled, which isn't terrible because they just get into my guard, but I'd like to keep the pin and/or go for an armbar. I feel stupid posting this because mount is a position where you should have alot of controlled, but it seems like 9 times out of ten I get bridged and rolled.
    You're making several mistakes.
    Your movements are too big.
    You're not keeping proper control while moving.
    You're putting too much weight on the wrong side of the teeter totter.

    These are, however, all things you're going to have to workout for yourself.

    One thing to keep in mind though is that you don't need to keep mount.
    If you're losing position, TRANSITION. Move to side or NS. Then work back to mount and go through some of the other suggestions on the thread. The problem though is your weight and your movement.

    Also, mount is NOT supposed to be a static position. You should be constantly moving to respond to your opponent. If they start to upa, move to a higher mount and get your posture. If they start to shrimp, grapevine. You should be moving while you're in mount, not lying there.

    Most people usually have an easier time with side than mount initially, but that's usually because they're treating it statically, not because of weight (sorry JKDC).
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