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  1. #11

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    your thread name being changed is nothing new or unique at all.

  2. #12

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ahh. I see. Next time, I'll focus my attention on an MA that's actually worthy of attention.

    Lesson learned. Humble pie baked and eaten.

  3. #13
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NaitoTheShinobi
    Well, I was a wee bit confused when it came to that part. Even though my subject trashes Systema, I believed it fit under an investigation subject more, since it deals with someone who may or may not have made false claims.... concerning a Bullshido event, no less.
    It might be worth your while to mention to "StopMoColorado" that Hank himself didn't claim to "own" anyone at the Toronto Throwdown. However, the video evidence pretty much speaks for itself. Both of the Systema practitioners who attended the event did fine, within the rules of their various matches. Hank has suggested that other Systema people in Toronto might also like to attend the next Throwdown in that area.

    Have you checked the other threads about the Toronto Throwdown yet?

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah. It seems as though those Systemers actually did pretty well for themselves. So, either Hank and Jellyman are really good fighters, or Systema is a halfway decent MA...


  5. #15
    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld supporting member
    Tom Kagan's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NaitoTheShinobi
    Ahh. I see. Next time, I'll focus my attention on an MA that's actually worthy of attention.

    Lesson learned. Humble pie baked and eaten.

    I don't think you learned your lesson.

    Forget Systema. I moved it because you want to start an investigation on an internet troll based on the fact you can't handle his trolling.

    No pie for you!
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's your own opinion Tom, but I respect it since you're a mod and you have the power to boot my ass out faster than a preacher with a hooker on Sunday morning.

    I haven't really gotten a clear cut answer out of this whole Systema thing. There are some people calling it complete bullshit, while others are saying it's not completely worthless, and still others (like me) have no idea what the feck to truly make of it! But what I do know is that Jelly and Hank are respectable fighters despite the less-than-stellar reputation their MA has gotten, and whatever those two are studying it must be decent if they can hold their own in a Throwdown. My stance on Systema stands, however, until we see a serious representative get a UFC title... or until I get my ass kicked by a Systemer. Whichever comes first.
    Last edited by NaitoTheShinobi; 5/06/2007 1:32am at .

  7. #17
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Naito,

    IMO as someone who has done a whole lot of research on this topic over the past three years or so:

    1) the "less than stellar rep" on the Internet is due in equal parts to TRS Direct marketing hype in the early days and a long series of mis-interpretations of some unusual Systema training exercises.

    2) Systema is not promoted nor taught as a sport; it's a self defense method. Systemists like Hank, Jellyman, RobP and others have sometimes attended Throwdowns for fun/learning/etc.; anyone who wanted to win the UFC could do much better by training in a dedicated MMA-style combat sport, rather than wasting training time with Systema-style weapon training, multiple-attacker training, etc.

    Again, we've already covered all of this in huge, painstaking detail on other Systema threads.

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And from my stand point people are trying to make systema into something it was never designed to be. From my studies it was a training method not an actual self-defense system. There's a huge amount of bullshit into it but I wouldn't call it all crap as long as it's put in perspective.

    Bullshit part: This punch will make you happy, this one will make you sad, or my favorite of hitting somebody's punch with your shoulder's nerve cluster.

  9. #19
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And from my stand point people are trying to make systema into something it was never designed to be. From my studies it was a training method not an actual self-defense system.
    I'd partially agree with that; perhaps we could compromise and think of it as a self defense training method. It's an open-ended progression of training drills rather than a collection of defined techniques to be learned by rote.

    Bullshit part: This punch will make you happy, this one will make you sad, or my favorite of hitting somebody's punch with your shoulder's nerve cluster.
    Not "happy and sad", "angry and calm". This was in the context of a discussion between Mikhail Ryabko and Rob Green (a Rikers Island correctional officer) about the best ways to physically control violent prisoners.

    Ryabko was simply saying that if you hit to certain parts of the body, in certain ways, that is likely to have a particular effect on the opponent's emotional state.

    His examples were

    1) a series of stinging slaps and quick, light strikes to major muscle groups (mostly chest and shoulders), which can have the effect of energizing the opponent ("making him angry") via the release of adrenaline

    2) a solid strike to the solar plexus, which knocks the air out of the opponent; his blood pressure drops and he calms down.

    His point was that it's better to use 2) if you're trying to subdue a violent inmate.

  10. #20
    It's all about the clinch. The clinch, I said. supporting member
    JP's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    I'd partially agree with that; perhaps we could compromise and think of it as a self defense training method. It's an open-ended progression of training drills rather than a collection of defined techniques to be learned by rote.



    Not "happy and sad", "angry and calm". This was in the context of a discussion between Mikhail Ryabko and Rob Green (a Rikers Island correctional officer) about the best ways to physically control violent prisoners.

    Ryabko was simply saying that if you hit to certain parts of the body, in certain ways, that is likely to have a particular effect on the opponent's emotional state.

    His examples were

    1) a series of stinging slaps and quick, light strikes to major muscle groups (mostly chest and shoulders), which can have the effect of energizing the opponent ("making him angry") via the release of adrenaline

    2) a solid strike to the solar plexus, which knocks the air out of the opponent; his blood pressure drops and he calms down.

    His point was that it's better to use 2) if you're trying to subdue a violent inmate.
    Wait a minute. You're telling me that they believe that if you slap a guy a bunch its going to piss him off, vs knocking the wind out of him which will settle him down?

    WELL NO FUCKING ****!

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