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  1. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
    Roidie McDouchebag's Avatar

    Injury Waiting To Happen

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Kamloops, BC
    Posts
    9,419

    Posted On:
    5/17/2007 6:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can't really force the fight back to striking range without wrestling skill
    Yes, you can.
  2. HonkyTonkMan is offline
    HonkyTonkMan's Avatar

    Y SO SRIUS?

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Black Belt City, Mississippi
    Posts
    5,434

    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 5:34am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical
    Because if the point is to be able to use your grappling techniques to negate someone's striking ability, it's not fully resistant training unless your training partner is trying to hit you while you try to achieve the clinch and attempts to gnp when you pull guard. If you can only perform a sweep if someone's slowly grinding into position for a sub instead of hitting you in the face, then you probably don't have a viable self-defense skillset(although you have the attributes where you could probably achieve such a skillset easily). Any sort of non-rounded fighting skill is going to have some holes when your attacker moves the fight to the phase you aren't proficient at.

    Now, that being said, someone who's been doing resistant grappling is going to be a hell of a lot better at moving the fight to his realm than a really good striker. You can't really force the fight back to striking range without wrestling skill, wheras a wrestling who can't strike has been working at changing the range of the fight since day one.....so if you can only train one, train some good wrestling skills with basic subs. But well-roundedness>being really proficient at one range.

    A few points.

    1) You contradict yourself.
    2) This is EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID.
    3) You fail at consistency.
  3. selfcritical is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,428

    Posted On:
    5/18/2007 9:05am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not really. I think I failed at clarity. What I said is.

    Someone who trains resistance against opponents who are only grappling in response is better at transitioning between ranges than a pure striker, and not as as good as someone who has trained those transitions with someone also trying to hit them them very very hard while they do them. I further asserted that the latter is what I would consider my benchmark for effective self defense training.

    So all i'm saying is that being able to apply your grappling skills in a fight with involve doing it while someone tries to hit you, and that actually training that part of the fight will make you better at it than not training it. If you never get hit while rolling I would consider part of your training missing....If this is one of your goals.

    That make more sense?
  4. HonkyTonkMan is offline
    HonkyTonkMan's Avatar

    Y SO SRIUS?

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Black Belt City, Mississippi
    Posts
    5,434

    Posted On:
    5/21/2007 5:16am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical
    Not really. I think I failed at clarity. What I said is.

    Someone who trains resistance against opponents who are only grappling in response is better at transitioning between ranges than a pure striker, and not as as good as someone who has trained those transitions with someone also trying to hit them them very very hard while they do them. I further asserted that the latter is what I would consider my benchmark for effective self defense training.

    So all i'm saying is that being able to apply your grappling skills in a fight with involve doing it while someone tries to hit you, and that actually training that part of the fight will make you better at it than not training it. If you never get hit while rolling I would consider part of your training missing....If this is one of your goals.

    That make more sense?

    Heck yeah it does. Why didnt you say so?
  5. wingchundo is offline

    Welterweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    643

    Posted On:
    6/09/2007 4:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pardon the interruption, but after reading ALL 38 pages of posts here, it seems that the solution has nothing to do with BJJ or CMA or aliveness or whatever.

    Cullion: it sounds like you just want better moderation in the CMA forums...

    Couldn't you have just said that?
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