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  1. #1
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Not all chinese martial artists want to spar.

    With all the Drama lately lets add some more.


    Not all chinese martial artists want to spar. It's true enough in my school. More power to them, for 99% of us, this is a hobby.
    Isol8d brought this up in the critique this forum thread. I think it is a topic that can be discussed.


    I agree to a certain extent. I have no problem with hobbyists none at all. I have problem with hobbyists thinking no sparring=Self Defense.

    No, I'm not going to get into the whole debate of what's the definition of Martial Art. We have enough threads on this in the regular forum.

  2. #2

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I spar as much as I can. We spar in classes. We get together on occasion with other chi-munchers and spar.

    And I am a hobbyist. (Fake, i think you an I already debated this a bit so if it is rehash, I can edit)

    To me a hobbyist is someone who doesnt make a life directed around it. I work a full time job. I am a drunk and like to chase tail. I like to play poker. I like to train Xing-Yi. To me that makes me a hobbyist.

    So me, my life every week is about:
    50 hours job
    10-20 hours Xing-Yi/gym/class
    8-12 hours drunk tail chasing
    Poker to fill in the blanks

    If it was
    60 hours Xing-Yi/gym/class
    then i wouldnt cal it a hobby.

  3. #3
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's why I quoted Isol8d per his definition, hobbyists don't like sparring. I considered it a hobby until I decided to teach.

    I no longer teach, it is a hobby again. A hobby is really no reason to think doing forms is going to make you able to do SD. This is a distinction rarely made by hobbyists.

    My hobby is kung fu, therefore I don't have to spar but, I can use it to defend myself because, dwohmp/teacher spars.

    This my problem.

    Have fun, don't ever spar, don't claim you do Self Defense, it isn't an issue. Hell, I may even join you at some point.

    99% of hobbyists live through their fighters/teachers then, claim there BB, then say they can fight. At least those I encounter. Hell my early years I thought the same until, I got popped in my nose.

  4. #4
    Southpaw's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It seems strange to me to have a hobby that you don't actual use.

    So...say my hobby was ice skating. I spent a bunch of time picking out the right pair of skates, sharpening the blades, stretching & warming up...but I never got on the ice to actually ice skate. That doens't really seem like much of a hobby huh?

    I guess an arguement can be made for training for simply the health benefits...

  5. #5
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw
    It seems strange to me to have a hobby that you don't actual use.

    So...say my hobby was ice skating. I spent a bunch of time picking out the right pair of skates, sharpening the blades, stretching & warming up...but I never got on the ice to actually ice skate. That doens't really seem like much of a hobby huh?

    I guess an arguement can be made for training for simply the health benefits...
    My mom did this with Tai Chi she is now 62. She could never touch her toes. So, she gained better flexibility, balance (she is older), and isn't sedentary. I can see their hobbyist P.O.V.

    I'm more in line with you wen it comes to myself.

  6. #6
    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville supporting member
    Boyd's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw
    It seems strange to me to have a hobby that you don't actual use.

    So...say my hobby was ice skating. I spent a bunch of time picking out the right pair of skates, sharpening the blades, stretching & warming up...but I never got on the ice to actually ice skate. That doens't really seem like much of a hobby huh?

    I guess an arguement can be made for training for simply the health benefits...
    It's just a cop-out, really. The entire phrase "I'm not doing this to become a cage fighter" or "I have a day job", while true for 95% of the martial arts-training population, is used almost exclusively by pussies trying to justify putting the bare minimum of effort into their training. How many times have you heard "I'm not trying to become a 300-pound steroid monster" by the asshole that chats on his cell phone in the gym?

    Under normal circumstances and in a normal hobby, I would say that if these people want to short-change themselves, so be it. It's not my problem and in no way affects my training. Except...it does. The naturally violent nature of martial arts lends itself to a certain backlash, an inherent (and oftentimes justified) fear of training too hard for fear of injury. This fear splinters off into the myraid issues the martial arts face today, virtually all of which have been addressed at this site eleventy billion times.

    If you have one fifty-year old accountant with a bad knee sitting out of sparring at the end of class, he's not hurting anyone. But what if he doesn't have a bad knee and just wants to pretend "being fifty" is an injury? What happens if that accountant is middle-aged and starts saying "Oh, I'm just here to have fun and increase my flexibility! ;)"? Now what if you've got several middle-aged accountants that signed up for a glorified yoga class? And they're talking, unionizing, spreading ideas and feeding a self-perpetuating cycle of victimhood and self pity founded on the delusional belief that only professionals should take pride in their work? Now the school's owner, facing a large group of students disinterested in any form of challenge, has to alter his curriculum to accomodate them.

    It's a frightening scenario, and as outlandish as it sounds, it's been happening all over the country. Of course most people do not train to be a cage fighter, and most people do work 9-5 jobs and can't afford to be injured. But using those ideas are crutches instead of realities leads to half-assed training, which in the end, benefits no one.
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  7. #7
    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld supporting member
    Tom Kagan's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The single most fundamental defining element of a fighter is the sheer hunger to close the gap.

    This hunger is independent of the exercise of better judgment; Its pangs cause such an aching desire to want to go forward even when to do so isn't tactically or strategically a great idea.


    Fighters want to fight.

    Some fighters can't gain control over the hunger.

    Not every Martial Artist is a fighter.

    Some non-fighters have learned to eat a little bit even if they are not feeling the hunger.





    ... And, some people subsist on "junk food". :smile:
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 5/04/2007 12:11pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

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  8. #8
    Scott Larson's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think these are two different issues. It is one thing to not want to spar, it is something completely different when someone doesn't want to put effort into training.

  9. #9
    Scott Larson's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great analogy, Tom.

  10. #10
    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What are we calling sparring?

    Is someone who sits out out of a class that has hard contact sparring worse off than someone who does tippy tapp point sparring?

    Is doing slap chi sao better than good pad work?

    These questions keep me up at night.

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