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  1. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sheffield, England
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 5:50am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateTom
    Thanks, you've been genuinely nice and helpful.
    Shush! Don't say that, they'll start expecting me to be nice around here.

    Ok, here's some info so you guys can point me towards a martial arts club.

    I'm 14 years old, living in Isleworth, Middlesex. This is a bus ride away from Richmond and Twickenham and near Hounslow. I don't pay for classes, so anything reasonable will probably be alright.
    Google says:
    Judo - Isleworth Explorers Boys Club, contact Krystella Ward 0208-5604552.
    Shotokan - Locations in Hounslow, Heston, Feltham, Isleworth - Middlesex Shotokan Karate Association, contact Jujhar Gill 0208 230 1758.

    Both in your hometown, traditionally neither is expensive either. To be honest you'd be a fool not to take up Judo at your age, it's a cheap and effective art that serves as a solid base into any form of training or competition. Training is alive (Google the video for Matt Thorton's Aliveness principle and watch it, it illustrates what's wrong with GKR training) and loads of fun. The club seems to be affiliated with the BJA (British Judo Association) with I understand has links with the Kodokan (THE Judo group, Kano's lot), it's also recognised by the government, so any qualification you recieve will be worth more than the paper it's printed on, unlike GKR. Expect to get a black belt around the time you're 18 to 20.

    Anyone who knows more about Judo, feel free to chime in....

    Other places to check for adverts would be places like community boards or library notice boards as most local clubs advertise in these places. Go check out some places, try a free lesson if they offer one, forget about the place if it doesn't. Ask (or get a parent to) some basic questions:
    What grade is the head instructor?
    What grade is the standard teaching instructor?
    How often is there sparring/randori?
    What association/organisation is the club with?
    What is the full name of their art?
    Get names of the club, a website if they have one and names of the teachers and comeback here with them. We'll do a quick check if we can. If you're going to that Judo club however these questions are pretty much unneccessary as the BJA has (I understand) a decent reputation for good practices and coaches.

    Regardless of where you end up training you must understand the basic principle, in order to get good at something you must actually do something to get good at it - no matter what it is. You cannot learn to swim on dry land and you can't learn martial arts without fighting. This doesn't mean you go home each week with broken bones, but you should be working up a sweat and be forced to think fast. However people dress it up, personal protection/reality based self defence/combatives or any of the other stupid euphemisms, martial arts are about fighting. They are not about esoteric improvement dressed up in Karate Kid style mysticism, they are about hurting someone else. I don't ask a driving instructor to teach me morals, I ask him to teach me to drive, same applies to my martial arts instructors.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  2. seeingStars is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    UK
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    24

    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 6:26am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TKD (ITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.shadowwarriorskickboxing.co.uk is run by a guy my instructor knows, he teaches proper self defence, not just kickboxing but bits of Judo, TKD, Jujutsu, etc as well

    http://butf.com/ have (ITF-TKD) clubs near you, all very good, the one that works out of the Bapist Hall in Uxbridge is run by a woman known for being one tough cookie, she was something like 11 times UK champion and world champion several times I think back when there was real contact (which is coming back to ITF events now). All the BUTF schools have very high standards of fitness training and contact sparing.

    http://www.learn-tkd.com is where I train, there is a class in Denham that you could try, only 10 for the 1st months training as a sampler.
  3. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

    Join Date
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    Sheffield, England
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    1,661

    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 7:15am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What are you doing? We're trying to get him to take decent arts; let's look at what you've suggested:

    Quote Originally Posted by seeingStars
    http://www.shadowwarriorskickboxing.co.uk is run by a guy my instructor knows, he teaches proper self defence, not just kickboxing but bits of Judo, TKD, Jujutsu, etc as well
    What's "proper self defence" then?

    Regardless, there are no classes in his town, the instructor seems to have an impressive list of qualifications but doesn't have any dates of promotion or awarding bodies mentioned. All this and I'm still not sure what they teach, it says a curriculum mixed from half a dozen different arts, this can be a recipe for disaster. Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Warriors' website
    True Martial Arts is not a violent activity
    Erm:
    Quote Originally Posted by Me, not two posts ago
    Regardless of where you end up training you must understand the basic principle, in order to get good at something you must actually do something to get good at it - no matter what it is. You cannot learn to swim on dry land and you can't learn martial arts without fighting.... They are not about esoteric improvement dressed up in Karate Kid style mysticism, they are about hurting someone else. I don't ask a driving instructor to teach me morals, I ask him to teach me to drive, same applies to my martial arts instructors.
    Quote Originally Posted by seeingStars
    http://butf.com/ have (ITF-TKD) clubs near you, all very good, the one that works out of the Bapist Hall in Uxbridge is run by a woman known for being one tough cookie, she was something like 11 times UK champion and world champion several times I think back when there was real contact (which is coming back to ITF events now). All the BUTF schools have very high standards of fitness training and contact sparing.
    I don't know how you know of a club in Uxbridge, because I looked all over that site and couldn't find a list of clubs or which instructors taught at individual clubs.

    At least the place looks better than the last link...

    It looks like a standard ITF TKD place, lots of politicising at the upper echelons. It's affiliated with ITF headquarters by the look of it (or at least one of them, they split into three after Choi died) which means you'd have a recognised grade. I'd have to ask DerAus or another of our resident TKD experts if they've heard of the organisation though. It is however TKD, which means you'd probably be picking up some bad habits that could including: not kicking to the leg, not punching well at all, training in a semi contact environment. ITF is the kata heavy form of TKD if memory serves, which means there's a load of kata to be learned as well.
    http://www.learn-tkd.com is where I train, there is a class in Denham that you could try, only 10 for the 1st months training as a sampler.
    Hmmm, although the site looks not as good as the other TKD link, this school looks better, instructor bios, dates of promotion, locations etc. Apart from the odd error that site isn't bad. Looks independent though, which can be a bad thing, though they do have CRB checks which is always a good sign in small clubs. It's the same martial art which (minus the politics) as the other TKD place, which means the same problems with the holes in training. It looks like they have links with Stuart Anslow's club, which means it should be easy enough to find out anymore on them if you're considering them.

    Of the clubs presented, Judo is still the prime option, and it's in your location as well. After that it depends on the standard of the Shotokan as to what comes next, but I'd be sticking with Judo and leaving the flailing your legs around high to ballet dancers.

    Oh, I found that Matt Thornton video on Aliveness. It should illustrate most of what's wrong with GKR. Let me see if I can the built in player to work: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=matt+thornton

    http://www.google.com/videoplay\?doc...50760833041053
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  4. seeingStars is offline

    Featherweight

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    UK
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    24

    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 7:43am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TKD (ITF)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By proper self defence I mean how to get out of locks, how to throw, how to attack, and when to run away. Billy Murray really is the real deal, very hard-core, very tough, and a nice guy. The BUTF is mainly in the south east so not so well known elsewhere, it is quite political but students don't see that, what they do see is consistant training and teaching across all the schools. How do I know there is a school in Uxbridge? Cos I've trained there, as has my Instructor and Billy Murray. Anyway I'm not going to defend TKD, like all arts it has it's faults which is why I also train in Aiki-Jujutsu under a guy whose name almost never shows up, he doesn't list his bio and doesn't believe in gradings or belts but even at 63 is one scary guy to see in action. It's amazing how many people on this site believe that a list of instructors and grades has any bearing on how good they are.
  5. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

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    Sheffield, England
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 8:21am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seeingStars
    By proper self defence I mean how to get out of locks, how to throw, how to attack, and when to run away. Billy Murray really is the real deal, very hard-core, very tough, and a nice guy.
    Standing wristlocks or grounded keylocks?

    Regardless, all the points I've mentioned still stand (unrefuted by yourself I might add) the man has no dates, no awarding bodies and no teachers listed. He might be the real deal, but this is a tactic used by people without verifiable qualifications to obscure their history. The website clearly does say that the curriculum is a mish mash of different styles, something else that is not a good sign when done in this way.

    The BUTF is mainly in the south east so not so well known elsewhere, it is quite political but students don't see that, what they do see is consistant training and teaching across all the schools. How do I know there is a school in Uxbridge? Cos I've trained there, as has my Instructor and Billy Murray.
    You'd be surprised who knows who.

    Anyway I'm not going to defend TKD, like all arts it has it's faults which is why I also train in Aiki-Jujutsu
    I think this needs it's own quote.

    under a guy whose name almost never shows up, he doesn't list his bio and doesn't believe in gradings or belts but even at 63 is one scary guy to see in action.
    And his name is? He trained where? Under whom? To what grade with which organisation? Which koryu? Aiki Ju Jutsu is a small group in the UK.

    It's amazing how many people on this site believe that a list of instructors and grades has any bearing on how good they are.
    That's because it does. If I had to choose between a gym that offered Rickson, Toddy and Thornton as instructors and another that had Ashida Kim, Coda Scott and Bryce Dallas as instructors I know which I'd pick based on people and qualifications. While first hand experience from a reliable source is the best evidence, in place of that grades and experience from legitimate groups is the way to go.

    And Judo is still PirateTom's best choice.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  6. PirateTom is offline

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    8

    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 10:25am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    Google says:
    Judo - Isleworth Explorers Boys Club, contact Krystella Ward 0208-5604552.
    Shotokan - Locations in Hounslow, Heston, Feltham, Isleworth - Middlesex Shotokan Karate Association, contact Jujhar Gill 0208 230 1758.
    I've actually done Judo before and didn't like it, probably because I was quite young and the instructor was a dick.

    I also emailed that Jujhar Gill guy yesterday after googling myself, and he replied:
    "We used to have a venue in Isleworth its closed so i adwise you to log on to site www.martialarts.com

    good luck"

    Oh ho.

    Another problem that may crop up is that I don't know how my Dad would take me switching, switching schools wouldn't be a problem I guess, but a whole new martial art?

    Edit: I'm not opposed to any other school of Karate, like Guju-Ryu or Wado-Ryu or any of the others.
    Last edited by PirateTom; 5/07/2007 10:34am at .
  7. kohadril is offline
    kohadril's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Seoul, ROK
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 11:00am


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's a Roger Gracie Academy about eight miles from you. 237 Kensal Rd, London. Obviously, it's BJJ, but the facility looks great on their website. I can't find their tuition on the site, but they have a free intro class offer. I'd suggest you take them up on it.
  8. Truculent Sheep is offline

    KEIN HAAR APPROVED!

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    UK
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 11:05am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Uxbridge is also home to Brunel University, which has several martial arts clubs:

    Boxing - http://www.brunelstudents.com/club_h...p?clubid=7181#
    Judo - http://www.brunelstudents.com/club_h...sp?clubid=7235
    Ju Jitsu - http://www.brunelstudents.com/club_h...sp?clubid=3929
    Karate - http://www.brunelstudents.com/club_h...sp?clubid=3930

    You're obviously too young to be a student, but perhaps if you asked them nicely, they might let you watch them train or point you in the right direction - even let you join in...
  9. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

    Join Date
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    Sheffield, England
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 11:16am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kohadril
    There's a Roger Gracie Academy about eight miles from you. 237 Kensal Rd, London. Obviously, it's BJJ, but the facility looks great on their website. I can't find their tuition on the site, but they have a free intro class offer. I'd suggest you take them up on it.
    Didn't realise he was this close (Greater London gives me a fucking headache), that's Slidey's stomping ground I believe, I'll shoot him a PM and see if he can add anything useful.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  10. kiai_killer is offline
    kiai_killer's Avatar

    Welterweight

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    Feb 2005
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    Newcastle, UK
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 12:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Roger Gracie Academy is going to be proper expensive tho.
    Straight punches make you go blind. More damage is done to a criminals nervous system when they are struck. Strikes that make you stronger. All this and more systema douchebaggery:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eak-m2iwI7Q

    NEW BONUS REEL, feat RobG at it again! lol:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJDnMDJVWmQ
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