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  1. Don Gwinn is offline
    Don Gwinn's Avatar

    BJJ wins again!

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    Jun 2004
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    Virden, IL
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    3,569

    Posted On:
    5/05/2007 6:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't all styles give you a false sense of security?
    No. Some training methods give you a false sense of security. If Go Kan Ryu trained with aliveness and did things right, then Go Kan Ryu would dispense with the false bravado in short order. Aliveness shows us what works and what doesn't; false confidence becomes a rare thing when you are crunched, twisted, bruised and battered on a weekly basis.

    What's to say the guy doesn't have a gun, or a blade?
    Well, you DO live in a gun-free paradise complete with knife amnesties to get the knives off the streets, right? I should think the worst weapon you might expect to encounter would be a stern talking-to.

    I can deal with violent situations by talking or running. If it comes to it, I can fight. I grew up big and strong.
    Wow. You're going to get hurt. Big and strong . . . . yeah, that's all it takes.
    Anyway, let's say I accept your assertion. It amounts to an admission that Go Kan Ryu does NOT teach effective self-defense. "OK, Go Kan Ryu is useless, but I already know how to fight so it'll be OK."
    That's fine for you; how about all those other students you claim to love like family?

    One of your biggest gripes, it seems, is that it's non contact. What I want to know is if it really matters.
    It absolutely doesn't matter a whit!
    Well, unless you want to learn karate, and then it matters a lot. You cannot learn to fight in any striking style without hitting people and getting hit, period.

    You know that when you hit someone it will hurt, and non contact teaches control, as well as the fact that a large percentage of the students are under 10 years old.
    Actually, YOU might think you know that from prior experience, but you do NOT know it from your Go Kan Ryu training if that training has been no-touchy style. Twenty years ago it was almost excusable for karate students to say "I have great control, and if I do decide to hit you, I'll break you like that board!"
    Today, there is no excuse not to know better.

    HOWEVER, I think GKR could benefit from contact kumite for people who do not mind getting hurt. Certainly a contact tournament, as I find that non-contact kumite is hard to block, as you do not know if the strike "could have" gone in.
    You are correct. HOWEVER, that would not correct the despicable pyramid-scheme nature of the style.

    I'm learning a lot, I've won two medals (bronze and silver) for my katas and it may just be my confidence or my build, but I know I could deal with most violent situations.
    Neat. I have three medals for winning the Macoupin County Spelling Bee when I was a kid. Three-peat, baby! I guess I win at life, too. :/

    Sum up: I'm loving GKR, and so are my brother and sister. It's keeping me fit and the dojo has a great atmosphere, not to mention all the great stuff I'm learning and how great the tournaments are. Entered for the Kata in the World Cup in Birmingham.
    Please give us an example of the "great stuff you are learning."
    *********************************************
  2. bob is offline
    bob's Avatar

    Prophet of Apathy

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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    897

    Posted On:
    5/05/2007 11:43pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Said it before and I'll say it again. The biggest problem with GKR is not the under-qualified instructors, the dodgy marketing or the cult of personality attached to the founder, it's the deliberate blindness of the students. 'Styles' like GKR will always flourish because there will always be a niche in the market to cater to those who would willingly decieve themselves.

    The kids I can understand because they don't know any better. The adults who do it because it's fun and they get fit but are honest about the fact that the practical application in real fighting is close to zero - also fine. The rest...
  3. bassai is offline

    Registered Member

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    Sep 2005
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    177

    Posted On:
    5/06/2007 1:19pm


     Style: shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateTom

    I might, but there's no shotokan clubs anywhere near my area. I'm happy with GKR.
    Where are you in the uk Because shotokan is pretty much the most common style

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateTom
    Yes, I am young, and I have no intention of devoting my life to karate. If I get my black belt, I'll know I earned it and it was hard.
    They give you a black and white belt , i've heard of very few actual black belts in gkr , people generaly wise up by then.
  4. PirateTom is offline

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    May 2007
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    8

    Posted On:
    5/06/2007 2:08pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bassai
    Where are you in the uk Because shotokan is pretty much the most common style
    Nope, no clubs a bus ride away, while GKR has around 5 clubs which are easy to get to.

    I dunno you guys, you've made me rethink my whole policy on GKR, all I know is that I'm having fun, getting fit and learning lots of ways to get away unscathed from violence.

    I'd love to see how 'better' schools functon, I'll probably look around.
  5. sonofkanga is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2007 2:36pm


     Style: KYOKUSHIN KARATE

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The proof is in the pudding.
    "learning lots of ways to get away unscathed from violence."
    Until you try them out you wont really know.
    Having fun and getting fit are admirable goals.Beliving this kind of training will save your life is foolish ,and down right irresponsible on the part of your instructors.
    As you will have to take my word for it,my experience teaches me that a violent encounter is anything but simple.There are just to many variables.
    So,by all means continue training in GKR,take your instructors assertions with a large spoonful of salt.
  6. PirateTom is offline

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    May 2007
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2007 3:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sonofkanga
    The proof is in the pudding.
    "learning lots of ways to get away unscathed from violence."
    Until you try them out you wont really know.
    Having fun and getting fit are admirable goals.Beliving this kind of training will save your life is foolish ,and down right irresponsible on the part of your instructors.
    As you will have to take my word for it,my experience teaches me that a violent encounter is anything but simple.There are just to many variables.
    So,by all means continue training in GKR,take your instructors assertions with a large spoonful of salt.
    Note I said 'Get away' unscathed from violence.

    Yeah, my instructors are cool, they don't make outrageous claims and know what they're talking about.

    Edit: Hang on, there's one point I need to pick up on:
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    Well, you DO live in a gun-free paradise complete with knife amnesties to get the knives off the streets, right? I should think the worst weapon you might expect to encounter would be a stern talking-to.
    Please visit www.news.bbc.co.uk and search "gun crime" or "gang culture" or any other variant. It's been on the rise for years now.
    This is a recent story that's made me really think about whether it was safe to go to a party in the city. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/6614743.stm

    Whatever "Toys for Knives" scheme you're talking about clearly hasn't made an impact.
    Last edited by PirateTom; 5/06/2007 5:08pm at .
  7. Cormoran is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2005
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    362

    Posted On:
    5/06/2007 10:11pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PirateTom, as a former GKR student i implore you to check out other karate places, they don't have to be shotokan, i'm sure someone here can point you to a place that teaches good karate in your area.

    You don't have to join them, just watch and see how they train compared to GKR, maybe ask if you can have some freindly sparring, see for yourself how GKR stands up against other karate. I think you seeing for yourself will do a whole lot more for you than us preaching to you from on high will.
  8. sonofkanga is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2007 11:41pm


     Style: KYOKUSHIN KARATE

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateTom
    Note I said 'Get away' unscathed from violence.

    Yeah, my instructors are cool, they don't make outrageous claims and know what they're talking about.

    Edit: Hang on, there's one point I need to pick up on:

    Please visit www.news.bbc.co.uk and search "gun crime" or "gang culture" or any other variant. It's been on the rise for years now.
    This is a recent story that's made me really think about whether it was safe to go to a party in the city. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/6614743.stm

    Whatever "Toys for Knives" scheme you're talking about clearly hasn't made an impact.
    Whatever you say.
    Have you or any of your instructors,any expirence with violent enconters that nessesated the use of GKR techniques?
  9. Iscariot is offline

    I decided I'd have a pretty avatar for a while.

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sheffield, England
    Posts
    1,661

    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 2:09am


     Style: Student Jutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I go away for a week and this develops.

    Why am I always late to the good threads?

    American Bullies reading this thread should be watchful in their communities, if this gets a foothold over there it could really spread.

    And on with business:
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateTom
    Hi, I thought I'd post here as I've been training in GKR since September '06, and I'm really enjoying it.

    What do I care if you have to pay to be a sensei? I'm not going to teach and I don't even pay my training fees :)

    I always leave each class having learnt something and everyone there is really nice, like a big karate family :S
    It's great that you're enjoying your hobby, and even better that you aren't actually putting money into their coffers.

    One of your biggest gripes, it seems, is that it's non contact. What I want to know is if it really matters. You know that when you hit someone it will hurt, and non contact teaches control, as well as the fact that a large percentage of the students are under 10 years old. There is a group of violent 30-something men who get filled with testosterone and want to fight, they're perfectly happy at the end of each session, they get to get all worked up and fight their friends.
    No, I don't care that it's a no-contact style, I study (when I have chance) one myself. However it's the combination of no-contact and the claims of teaching Self Defence that we have a problem with. The two are mutually exclusive.

    I'm learning a lot, I've won two medals (bronze and silver) for my katas and it may just be my confidence or my build, but I know I could deal with most violent situations.
    It's great that you're learning a lot, but is it worth anything outside of your own organisation?

    For example, my A Levels are recognised by a national board that is a respected provider of qualifications. What are your grades and kata worth? As I understand it from Karate practitioners GKR grades are laughed at outside the organisation, and the kata are poorly done and sloppy versions taken from other Karate Ryu.

    Sum up: I'm loving GKR, and so are my brother and sister. It's keeping me fit and the dojo has a great atmosphere, not to mention all the great stuff I'm learning and how great the tournaments are. Entered for the Kata in the World Cup in Birmingham.
    Does this tournament have an entry fee? A registration fee? A qualifying event beforehand?

    I can deal with violent situations by talking or running. If it comes to it, I can fight. I grew up big and strong
    Great, so you're covered. Why are you taking GKR then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn
    Well, you DO live in a gun-free paradise complete with knife amnesties to get the knives off the streets, right? I should think the worst weapon you might expect to encounter would be a stern talking-to.
    It's not often Don, but you do fail here. You've read my thread on knife crime in the BBC.

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateTom
    Nope, no clubs a bus ride away, while GKR has around 5 clubs which are easy to get to.
    McDonalds may be a closer option, but if I'm going out for dinner I'll be travelling the 30 miles to my favorite restaurant, the travelling's a pain but I get something a whole lot better at the end of it.

    I'd love to see how 'better' schools functon, I'll probably look around.
    Give us some basic details and we'll probably be able to give you some options, there are plenty of us here from the UK. Give us your location, age, and budget and we'll see if we can give you some alternatives.

    Yeah, my instructors are cool, they don't make outrageous claims and know what they're talking about.
    How do you know?

    No, seriously? What's your experience in the martials arts, its history and practices? I'm guessing it's very little.

    There's nothing wrong with that at all, so don't get indignant, but compared to some of the people that post here you are the paragon of ignorance. You want to help yourself? Listen to what they say.

    You say they don't make outrageous claims? They do. No-contact training = self defence training? That is an outrageous claim. It's like learning to drive a car without ever getting in one, just making gear changes with an umbrella and pushing a stack of books to accelerate. Or learning to swim without ever getting wet and just 'training' by flailing your arms and legs.

    This bears repeating:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cormoran
    PirateTom, as a former GKR student i implore you to check out other karate places, they don't have to be shotokan, i'm sure someone here can point you to a place that teaches good karate in your area.
    Directly from someone who has taken GKR. How much more of a qualified opinion would you like?

    Also, you don't have to exclusively look at Karate, there are many decent arts out there.

    On Bullshido we have these things called Throwdowns. It's where a group of us show up and have a friendly sparring session so we can see what works in our training and more importantly what doesn't. Everyone has a laugh and there's usually beer afterwards. There's one in the next month or so (unless it's already gone) in Birmingham, there's one to be rescheduled for Grimsby and we've got one organised in Slovakia (think European weekend break with added violence and guns) in September. Come down to one (check the threads in the Throwdown forum) and see for yourself where your training is.

    Regardless of what you may have seen in the YMAS forum or have heard from other (lesser) forums, Bullshido is not here to pick on newbies and generally be nasty online. Bullshido exists so people without any experience in the martial arts can get an honest opinion on things without things being veiled in psuedo-Eastern mysticism. Bullshido is here to help you, all you have to do is listen.
    "Listen to Iscariot you Vicchysoise ninja-fuckers!" - kohadril
    "Are you going to rise to godhood out of the ashes of Earth? " - frumpleswift
    "I'll pray for you Iscariot." - Mas
    "Iscariot, check your pulse and report back. We need to know if you are in fact, not alive." - Lu Tzu
    "Iscariot is victorious!" - Dai Tenshi
    "More God delusions." - DAYoung
    "Iscariot, despite our obvious doctrinal differences, I salute your exquisite bastardry, and take back half of all the bad things I ever said about you." - Zendetta
  10. PirateTom is offline

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    May 2007
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    Posted On:
    5/07/2007 4:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscariot
    Everything
    Thanks, you've been genuinely nice and helpful.

    Ok, here's some info so you guys can point me towards a martial arts club.

    I'm 14 years old, living in Isleworth, Middlesex. This is a bus ride away from Richmond and Twickenham and near Hounslow. I don't pay for classes, so anything reasonable will probably be alright.
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