Ray Longo's place is very good.
That said...don't worry, Extreme is NOT a McDojo. First, you can look at their record and see that they do indeed put out real competitive fighters. Second, my friend trains there, and for fun I went there and took a free class just to see the place he was training at (I don't live near there).
The place is very well equipped, and the training is very serious. You will receive very good instruction and see things very quickly. They train hard. They encourage sparring quite a bit. I'm sure you'd be very happy if you went there.
The only caveats: From what I've been able to glean from my friend, they might try to make you buy a few things you wouldn't normally buy. For example, people who've been coming for a while are encouraged (not required, but definitely encouraged) to buy and bring their own Thai pads...I'd never seen that before. However, I don't think they require you to buy the pads from them, so that may not be a money-milking thing. The other caveat is actually just the downside of an upside: They are very intense about their training, so the place does have something of a wolfpack mentality. I didn't sense a great deal of individuality, a bit like the Borg in Star Trek. I'm not sure that the place is necessarily the most "fun" place (I know we go to train hard and improve, but clearly enjoying one's self is important).
For that reason, I suggest you go and try out a class. But from what I can see, you need not worry at all about it being a McDojo.
lk2230, where do you train now? I've quit Enshin for good and I'm looking for a MT or low kick kickboxing gym, in the western Suffolk area.
I trained there a while back. I didn't really like it. They lock you into an air tight, full year contract. I knew a few people who basically just stopped paying them to get out of the contract. Luckily, they were never taken to court. Pulling that stunt can really mess your credit up( breaching contracts never looks good on credit ratings). They charge $150 a month and more or less force you to buy all of your equipment through them. They also charge you around $70 for their uniform, which you're expected to wear to each class. There are tons of people in each class, so it tends to become like a mosh pit. They have sparring on saturdays. If you can't make saturdays, you might have an issue if you want to spar. Their classes are an hour long. It basically goes like this: 15- 20 minutes of conditioning (which is the honestly the best conditioning I've ever done), followed by about 10 minutes of throwing punches and elbows to the beat of the music they put on. The remaining time is pad work with occasional clinch work. Basically, you hold pads for your partner for 15 minutes and then they hold for you for 15 minutes. Very rarely did they correct my form/ mechanics due to the amount of people in the class. When another instructor at another school saw me doing bag work, he seemed to have a hard time believing that I had trained in Muay Thai for a while. My punches were not only weak, but sloppy as well. Once, I was holding pads for a classmate who had a decent punch. When I asked him how he was able to hit so well, he told me that it just kind of comes to you after a while. That was a red flag for me. It shouldn't "come to you" on your own. Your instructor should be showing you. Especially at $150 a month (on top of the hundreds of dollars worth of equipment you're expected to buy from them).
Their coaches are great fighters, but I don't think that's because of the classes. It seems like they spend 90% of their day at the school. They train their asses off. Hitting pads for 15 minutes per class doesn't make you a great fighter. They're good instructors, but you rarely get any personal attention due to the mobs of people in each class. I'm sure one on one lessons would be much better, but how do you afford them on top of the astronomical amount you already pay monthly? I agree that the site sounds like ego masturbation (there is a sense of arrogance there). Plus, if you notice on his bio page where it lists all of the martial arts he's studied, not once does it mention him studying Muay Thai. It states that he "actually discovered Muay Thai" while in a street fight. He also lists about a dozen martial arts that he's trained in, yet still credits himself as "an independant and self- taught martial artist".
It seems like most people I talk to who have trained there have nightmare stories about the place. The contract seems to be the main complaint. Another one came from a classmate who stated, "They don't teach you anything here that you can't do on your own at home. They just have bags and stuff that I don't have at my house". It's true. They teach long, complex combinations and rarely have sparring. On top of that, right on their website it states that they do weapons training and grappling. Not once when I was there did we grapple or do any weapon training. I strongly suggest you check out the Bellmore Kickboxing Academy. Joe D'arce trains there, Phil Baroni trained under one of the owners, one of their guys has a pro fight coming up which will be on Pay Per View, plus there are others. Those are just three guys that I know of. Basically, they churn out damn good fighters. With a one year committment with them, it's $29 per month. They don't have adult classes, but you get access to every kind of bag you could ever need, free weights, a ring, grappling mats, plus you can use whatever equipment you want. They also offer private lessons which are pretty reasonably priced in comparison to everywhere else I've seen. Slightly more expensive than private lessons at other schools, but they're churning out damn good pro after damn good pro.
Here are some other boxing/ kickboxing schools on the island- http://www.martialartsny.com/longisland/kickbox.html
Last edited by Storms of War; 5/05/2007 12:58am at .
Thanks for the in-depth review. That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
If you still decide to sign up with them, you can have my old uniform for free (assuming it doesn't creep you out). It's actually an extra. My uniform wasn't clean one day and I didn't feel like having them break my balls for not having their uniform on, so I bought an extra one before class one day. I can count the number of times I wore it on one hand. It serves no purpose anymore, aside from sitting in a drawer never to be used again. It's washed too. It'll save you a decent chunk of money. I don't think you'd want the other shirt I have. It's got a gaping hole in the back of it.
Originally Posted by Larfox
No, I've decided against the school. Thanks for the offer though.
Edit: I've become undecided on where I want to train, and what style. I would like to cross-train Boxing, Judo and BJJ, but I just don't have the time or the money to do all of them.
I would also like to improve on something that I could use for when I join the police force (it's looking like suffolk county at the moment), so I was thinking Judo. I have a passion for MMA, but I come from a Boxing backround. Striking isn't going to be that useful, except for maybe defense. I just love to throw.
Last edited by Larfox; 5/06/2007 10:17pm at .
1. Be a Suffolk cop or barring that, Nassau
Highest paid police force in the country, how long that will last though I don't know
2. Do not get caught in the shithole that is the NYPD.
3. Dpending on where you are located, there are a few good judo schools. I even know of a Judo MMA school in the Queens/Nasssau border area. Where you at dawg?
Jamaica Queens, right next to the sunrise highway.
I aced the NYPD, but I just cannot justify the pay cut I'll be taking for the first year. My brother-in-law got in just before they lowered the pay. I kicked myself for not taking the test then.
Suffolk test is next month.
If you plan on having a family, NYPD is not the way to go. My father was a NYC cop for 20 years. Don't do it if you can help it. Suffolk guys get like $100,000 a year plus overtime. The only way you could make that amount is if there is a huge disaster in which you can get an obscene amount of overtime. I went on alot of vacations post 9/11.
If it seems close enough, I would definetly go here. http://www.krystekjudo.com/
They box and do judo. These guys did pretty good at a Sport Jiu Jitsu (think MMA lite) tournament I went to. I have also seen them at some Judo tournaments.
A good directory is http://www.martialartsny.com/ I am sure you could find something in your area.
Do you know the name of this place by any chance? I have a friend in Queens who is in a pretty boring JKD-based "mma" club right now.
Originally Posted by rsobrien
Originally Posted by Dinosaur AMP