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View Poll Results: After some minor talk with the owner, Reality Defense is:

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Not a bullshit school

    2 2.74%
  • Kind of a bullshit school

    16 21.92%
  • Bullshit school-not recommended by bullshido

    55 75.34%
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  1. HigherLearning is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 8:29pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff C.
    Wow, here we go with the myth that grapplers can't possibly know how to gouge, bite, etc. I mean, hell, everybody knows those are extraordinarily complicated techniques that only REAL "self-defense" folks can learn how to do, and of course you can do them effectively with devastating effect while someone is mounted on your chest beating the daylights out of you!

    *sigh* To repeat for the hundred billionth trillionth time, the person with superior positioning skills will not only be able to hit you, throw you, strangle you, etc more effectively - they also are in a better position to stick their finger in your eye, fish-hook you, etc.

    This karate guy thought the same thing too, right up to getting his arm broken: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjXUCjLgyis

    Jeff Cook
    damn those uber deadly eye gouges really worked well there...
  2. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 11:46pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  3. troycoe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 10:11am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Reality Defense Training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I will take the high road. I invite any person, fighter, competitive Martial Artist etc. to come in and see for themselves. Like I said, "Intelligent men can disagree and still be friendly" in reference to Rouge Theory’s comment. Gouging, biting, ear tearing, and finger breaking require no leverage and you are assuming that a grappler will always be in a dominate position. It only takes 25 to 35 pounds of force to rupture the eye (average man can crush 85 lbs MMA fighter would be much higher I would imagine) and about 10 pounds to remove and ear. And a man can bite in excess of 400 lbs psi. I have had many MMA trained fighters come in and test their skills and most are my students now except those that love the competition aspect of cage fighting but I remain friendly with all of them. They however, actually came in and rolled with us.
    About two years ago a guy by the name of “Predator” e-mailed and challenged but never followed through once pressed. He wanted to challenge under (please pardon the spelling) Valle Tudo? rules. This is very time consuming and draining. I wish someone in the Phoenix area that is affiliated with this forum would come in and check out what we do.
    Take care guys and be safe in whatever endeavor you undertake.

    Troy
  4. Law is offline
    Law's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 10:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    in reference to Rouge Theory’s comment. Gouging, biting, ear tearing, and finger breaking require no leverage and you are assuming that a grappler will always be in a dominate position. It only takes 25 to 35 pounds of force to rupture the eye (average man can crush 85 lbs MMA fighter would be much higher I would imagine) And a man can bite in excess of 400 lbs psi.
    You obviously only skimmed over my post and didn’t bother reading it in its entirety. Since you failed to address any of my points. I understand though since this is a very tiring and time consuming process. BTW you never answered my question on the “ferocious 5” and do you have documented evidence of it working on a competent grappler?


    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    and about 10 pounds to remove and ear.
    So how many people's ears have you ripped off?


    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Valle Tudo? rules.

    "Vale Tudo (Portuguese for Anything goes. The individual words translate into English as vale - "is allowed" and tudo - "everything", but the term means anything goes and describes competitions in unarmed combat having minimal rules."


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vale_tudo

    I would have thought this setting would have been right up your alley.



    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    This is very time consuming and draining.
    Yes, typing 3 entire posts and calling upon your intellect in order to defend your position is very tiring and time consuming. How on earth do you get through your classes!?

    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Extensive study of multiple martial arts disciplines Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo;
    I took this snippet from your web-site. So these two arts are the basis of your expertise? What other arts have you studied extensively?
    Last edited by Law; 10/28/2008 11:16am at .
  5. PointyShinyBurn is offline
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar

    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 11:16am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    I have had many MMA trained fighters come in and test their skills and most are my students now except those that love the competition aspect of cage fighting but I remain friendly with all of them.
    Are you claiming to have defeated MMA fighters, here? If so, can you name some of them, please?
  6. Goldust is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 12:22pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    About two years ago a guy by the name of “Predator” e-mailed and challenged but never followed through once pressed. He wanted to challenge under (please pardon the spelling) Valle Tudo? rules.
    I know the infamous "Predator". He told me that after he took the free class at your place he later e-mailed you and questioned what it was exactly that you thought it was that you could do to stop someone like Mark Kerr from taking you down. Your reply was a tirade challenging him to come down and fight you similar to your second post here. Since "Predator" was about 155-160lbs. he was more interested in fighting one of your instructors Jeff Barto. Barto also likes to spout off about how he could "destroy" any of those "cage fighters" in a "real" fight. But at least acknowledges that they could "probably " beat him in just grappling. (Talk about being delusional. An experienced fighter or grappler would have this guy tapping faster than Ned Beatte was squealing when the hillbilly had him bent over a tree stump in Deliverance.)

    At any rate Predator never followed through because he wasn't interested in fighting someone who outweighed him by 100+lbs. At some point he called me and asked me what I thought about it and I advised him against it due to the considerable size difference. I told him "If you were to go in there and lose then they would go around for years telling any and everyone about how they beat some mma fighter that came in and challenged them using it as validation of their system, conveniently leaving out the part about the 100+lbs. disparity in weight."
  7. troycoe is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Reality Defense Training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, Karate guy did not do any of the things we teach, and I have had the unfortunate experience of removing an ear twice (which ended the fight), and have broken many fingers (which also ended the fight). I damaged an individual’s eye once with a direct gouge. I am not sure if it eye was permanently damaged, with the apparent agonizing pain screaming I did not follow through after that he wanted nothing to do with me. All of those fights, ended in a situation where a follow up was not necessary. These were street fights not a school challenge. As you all know, there are no rules on the street. I have high regard for grapplers which is why the response is so direct and viscous. You cannot give the grappler the benefit of the doubt or you could end up with a broken limb or being choked out. If that were to happen with the lack of control that most people have (not all) they could continue to beat and kick and potentially kill you. I have a student that almost got killed when he was in a fight and he was mounted on top of a guy in a street fight and the mounted guy’s friend punched him in the head and then kicked him in the head. The first kick knocked him unconscious; he proceeded to kick him “7” more times. His father who also trains with me now was told by the ER doctor that “If your son lives he will be a vegetable,” can you imagine hearing that about your child? They caught him and charged him with attempted murder but he plead to Aggravated Assault Dangerous. That person is serving 8 ˝ year in Florence Prison here in Arizona I believe he has 3 ˝ more years to go. This happened before I met him. I for one am not willing to take that chance.
    The MMA fighters were students of MMA not competitive fighters. Their names would mean nothing to you. The challenge from Predator was with Valle Tudo, he would not come in if there was going to be gouging, biting etc. His final comment to me was “Gouge your own eyes out.” You put one rule on an event such as that and it is a sport as brutal as it may be it is still a sport because you may have to take a person’s life in the real world. I am sure you guys have heard the saying, “I would rather be judges by 12 than carried by 6.” You guy try and rip on what I do and you truly do not know what I do or the way I do it. People see you punching and kicking and many think “they must be doing Kick Boxing” or if they see you on the ground you must be doing “Jujitsu.” I have been helping people survive on the street for over 25 years. I have never had a student lose on the street. Does not mean that cannot happen but it has not happened yet.
    While typing this response, GOLDUST added something. I really love the way things get twisted. His opening statement in an E-mail to me was “I hope your students have good life insurance because what you teach is ****.” I learned a long time ago you should not open your mouth if you can’t back it up. No one is surprised when somebody taunts a big dog or alligator and they turn around and bit them. And when I pressed him he changed his challenge to Jeff (who accepted) and he also backed out on that. Beside why does size have to with anything? If you are a bad ass it should not matter. I took the printed e-mail to Cannon Fighting Systems (who predator named dropped) after predator started dropping names and asked Bill (the owner) if he know who he was. He told me that he remembered him and that he did not want to pay for classes so he did not train there anymore. I guess predator didn’t realize that Bill’s wife was training with us for self defense at that time. Predator, like many make statements and will not give their real name and contact info hiding behind the key board. Like GOLDUST it would seem. I understand that you will believe him over me and I respect that. One of the instructors at Cannon at that time was a guy named Travis, he managed the One Stop Nutrition on 32nd street and Greenway. I brought these e-mails to him. Travis told me he contacted predator and told him to back off and not to challenge people through Cannon which was in bad form seeing that predator was not a student at Cannon. I didn’t hear from predator for about 2 months and then I received yet more e-mails from him. He started the **** talking not me.
    GOLDUST please come down, I am not throwing down the gauntlet, I am not trying to set you up. You are the only person on this forum that live in the area of my school (That I know of). Please do me a favor and come down and stop trashing what I do until you understand the methodology and philosophy of what I teach.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:17pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Wow, Karate guy did not do any of the things we teach, and I have had the unfortunate experience of removing an ear twice (which ended the fight), and have broken many fingers (which also ended the fight).
    So, how much jail time did you do?
  9. Gbemi is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:24pm


     Style: BJJ (faixa branca)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Wow, Karate guy did not do any of the things we teach, and I have had the unfortunate experience of removing an ear twice (which ended the fight), and have broken many fingers (which also ended the fight). I damaged an individual’s eye once with a direct gouge. I am not sure if it eye was permanently damaged, with the apparent agonizing pain screaming I did not follow through after that he wanted nothing to do with me. All of those fights, ended in a situation where a follow up was not necessary. These were street fights not a school challenge. As you all know, there are no rules on the street.
    Troy,

    Surely the individual was rushed to a hospital where he (or they) was treated for his injuries. While there, I would also assume a police report was filed and an investigation launched.
    You are actually very close to being able to prove your claims. What date and county did this occur in? Name of the earless chap?
    Did you go to the police to report your involvement in this? If so, do you have the name/ number of the precinct where the report was filed, report number, witnesses or anything else?
    This would all be a big help.

    Thanks
  10. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    10/28/2008 1:26pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you can't prove you've ripped people's ears off or any of your other ****, it's just that, ****.

    Even if you had, where is the actual scientific data proving that it takes X amount of psi to remove an ear.

    Proof plz or stfu.
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