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View Poll Results: After some minor talk with the owner, Reality Defense is:

Voters
72. You may not vote on this poll
  • Not a bullshit school

    2 2.78%
  • Kind of a bullshit school

    16 22.22%
  • Bullshit school-not recommended by bullshido

    54 75.00%
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  1. Jeff C. is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2008 6:48pm


     Style: Ju-Jitsu/BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I went back and did a recount; you are right. I was two off. 98 billionth trillionth time. ;-)

    Jeff Cook
  2. Goldust is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/25/2008 10:24pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just got in the door from a very long day (I had to coach one of my guys at a grappling tournament...1st place finish). I don't have the time or the energy right now to address Troy's typical blustery reply and I'll probably be out all day tomorrow so I most likely won't be able to get around to it until Monday.
  3. sempaiman is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 9:51am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just don't get why Troy is so angry. He would make a better case for himself if he took the high road on his response.
  4. Snake Plissken is offline
    Snake Plissken's Avatar

    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 10:57am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because Troy is under the deluded impression that Goldust's review cost him International W as a student, despite International W listing his residence as "Nassau, Bahamas"
  5. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    10/26/2008 11:31am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    First, I never said Mark Kerr couldn’t take me down. I was asking him questions as to what Gracie was trying to do to him when Mark defeated Gracie in the UFC. Also, you can stop any “Grappler” with the ferocious 5. When you are trying submitting and ground and pound and I am gouging and biting and ripping you are not going be successful. Come in and try. As I said, put your money where your mouth is. I suspect that you will like many people will sit behind your computer screen and make statements and not stand up to scrutiny. I will.
    You see, I read a response to your review and someone decided to not come in and at least draw their own conclusion, so you have hurt my business. That is the problem with people like yourself running your mouth not knowing the consequences of your actions. I will again invite you to come in and test what you say to what I say. We do not compete because if gouging and bite were allowed people would get very injured. Why can’t MMA fighters separate the two and leave it be? Man up, come in and see, treat this as a Challenge or a comparison I don’t care.
    Lastly, about the two statements about "We have ways of striking that no one in the world knows...except us!" that is a bold face lie! I have never said that, because that is not true.
    AND
    "They would ban us from professional Boxing because we would knock every one out in one round!" etc. I have never said that either, why would you get band for performing the goal of boxing in one round? Tyson did it for years.
    I have invited you twice now to put up or shut up, what’s it going to be? Everybody on this forum will see this if you will not back up your opinion and views you are a coward!
    Welcome to bullshido.

    I'm going to ignore all the other e-posturing.

    Here is how your posting in an angry manner makes me question you and not Goldust.


    Quote Originally Posted by Troycoe
    We do not compete because if gouging and bite were allowed people would get very injured. Why can’t MMA fighters separate the two and leave it be?
    That says it all for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldust alleged quote from troycoe
    We have ways of striking that no one in the world knows...except us!
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldust alleged quote from troycoe
    "They would ban us from professional Boxing because we would knock every one out in one round!"
    Wow in the exact same realm IMO.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 10/26/2008 11:36am at .
  6. Law is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 4:19am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Muay Thai/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Also, you can stop any “Grappler” with the ferocious 5.
    What is the "ferocious 5" and do you have any documented evidence of it working against a competent grappler? Somehow I doubt that you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    When you are trying submitting and ground and pound and I am gouging and biting and ripping you are not going be successful.


    The “position before submission” mantra applies to both the ring and the street in many respects. Let’s take your “dirty tactics” argument for example. How exactly are you going to “gouge/rip” a competent grappler with any real force and control when hypothetically they're in the dominant position; with their weight well distributed and complemented with an incoming solid technique?


    Scenario A: You’re mounted in the said ground and pound. Your arms are going to be instinctively protecting your head/face from the raining strikes and your mind is going to be pre-occupied with a host of other applications which could be applied. Such as chokes, eye gouges, rips and hair pulling to bounce your head off the concrete (Yes! Grapplers can do these simple things too)

    Scenario B: You’re side mounted and in the bottom position with your arms pinned and a forearm choke is being applied; the grappler has the superior leverage and body weight behind the choke. How exactly are your "school yard tactics" going to get you out of that predicament?


    Do you see where I’m going with this? In a nutshell your sweeping generalization that “dirty tactics” are a valid and superior defence against a (any) grappler, simply doesn’t hold any water. Since arguably a proficient grappler will always strategically apply his positional dominance and leverage, to minimize any space and potential counter attacks which may be attempted. Let’s not even get into the fact that your rib cage is being compressed making it difficult for you to breath/think/anticipate.


    I’ll add that even if you do happen to find yourself in a position to bite/pinch, your mind is going to be too pre-occupied with escaping from the painful submission being applied,to get any real gusto on your bite/pinch/gouge.


    We do not compete because if gouging and bite were allowed people would get very injured.

    This is another wet "too deadly to apply" excuse to hide behind the bigger picture. Which helps to stop the flaws in your art/program being exposed. Whilst biting/gouging/pinching/hair pulling have their place in a street skirmish, a skilled martial artist shouldn't have to revolve his entire game and arsenal around them. Which evidently you seem to be doing, based on your high horse blanket statements.


    Consider early UFC, where the only rule was no eye gouging or fish-hooks. Even groin strikes were deemed legal. At the end of the day who prevailed? The grappler.
    Last edited by Law; 10/27/2008 11:35am at .
  7. Goldust is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 2:49pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    I will start with the rant drafted by GOLDUST.
    I wouldn't exactly call it a "rant". Personally I thought it was thorough and well written.


    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    I will say this, he is lying about watching a class or sparring...GOLDUST's description of the class and methods of the class proves he was not there.
    Not true, and when I elaborate further you will know that I am not lying about having been there.


    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    It is a sad state of our society when armchair warriors sit back and Blog about things they truly know nothing about.
    I've been training in martial arts in one form or another for almost 18 years now. For what it's worth I also have a 12-1 mma record so I would hardly say that I am an "armchair warrior".
  8. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 2:58pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're ranting again.
  9. Goldust is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 3:19pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    First, I never said Mark Kerr couldn’t take me down. I was asking him questions as to what Gracie was trying to do to him when Mark defeated Gracie in the UFC.
    I distinctly remember you saying "Even Mark Kerr couldn't take me down." A friend of mine, John Levenson took the free class at your place and also remembers you telling him more or less the same thing.

    Also as has already been pointed out Mark Kerr has never fought any of the Gracies in the UFC.


    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Also, you can stop any “Grappler” with the ferocious 5. When you are trying submitting and ground and pound and I am gouging and biting and ripping you are not going be successful.
    I'm not even going to deal with this one. This topic has already been beaten to death here and several people have already addressed it well.




    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Why can’t MMA fighters separate the two and leave it be?
    I'm not sure what your point is here. I never claimed that MMA was the be all end all or that it didn't have it's limitations as well.
    Last edited by Goldust; 10/27/2008 5:17pm at .
  10. Goldust is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/27/2008 4:37pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    Lastly, about the two statements about "We have ways of striking that no one in the world knows...except us!" that is a bold face lie!I have never said that...
    I didn't hear that one personally, John Levenson told me you said that to him when he took the free class. I'm going to try to get him to come on here to corroborate this one.


    Quote Originally Posted by troycoe
    "They would ban us from professional Boxing because we would knock every one out in one round!" etc. I have never said that either
    This one wasn't directly from you but your students and other instructors. Their general attitude was that Boxing and Muay Thai was all bullshit. You also told me "If more guys in MMA fought stand up and threw their punches the way that we do you would see a lot more knock outs."

    So why did I write and post my review?

    As stated earlier I thought that other people might find my experience interesting. Ever since our visit to RDT something about it just seemed to stick in my craw. Maybe it was the continual condescending reference to us as as "You Jiu-Jitsu guys". Troy would set up some scenario and say "What would you Jiu-Jitsu guys do here?" I thought that we were just there to watch class, I wasn't expecting a Q and A session and it wouldn't have mattered anyway because whatever I said Troy would just shoot it down and show us how what they would do was so far superior.

    Now I'm sure that his interpretation of things was quite different. He probably saw it as an exchange of ideas. And maybe that's what he intended it to be but it didn't come off that way to me nor did it come off that way to the guy that was with me. It was very passive/aggressive. Like they were telling us "Your guys sport fighting garbage is **** and we could kick your ass." but without just being blunt about it. Actually if they had just come right out and said "Your guys sport fighting garbage is **** and we could kick your ass." I wouldn't even have been pissed about it since at least they were being upfront and honest with their opinion. Overall it was a very awkward experience for us.

    Now when I wrote the review I wasn't just trying to do a hatchet job on the place. I still stand by everything that I wrote and I know of at least three people who have also had the opportunity to watch/participate in a class and when they read my review they said that they also totally agreed with everything that was written.

    Now all that being said this was several years ago. Who knows maybe things have changed since then and now RDT is the pinnacle of self defense training. It wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong about something. I would encourage anybody reading this thread to go there and judge for yourself, this is just my perspective of the situation.
    Last edited by Goldust; 10/27/2008 5:31pm at .
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