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View Poll Results: After some minor talk with the owner, Reality Defense is:

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  • Not a bullshit school

    2 2.74%
  • Kind of a bullshit school

    16 21.92%
  • Bullshit school-not recommended by bullshido

    55 75.34%
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  1. sumito is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 2:35pm


     Style: Close Quarters Combat

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hi John,

    Thanks for sharing your perspectives on other arts like Judo. I am familiar with Jigoro Kano and the history of its evolution, all the way back to Shuai Jiao, which is the root of JJ, Aikido, Judo, et al.

    Your comments on the techniques of MMA are spot on, with one exception, they do not address the areas that we have coined called the Ferocious Five. It is a huge blind spot. Not to mention there is a mental state associated with having someone take a bite out of you, ripping off your ear or laying your finger on the back of your hand when you grab them. These are topics which simply aren't addressed in sport based MMA schools.

    As for LE and Military, we have current operators training with us now and routinely train the Arizona Tactical Officers Associatons http://www.aztac.org/ and have references from that community.
  2. sumito is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 2:41pm


     Style: Close Quarters Combat

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is Fake,

    As usual, it is easier to take something out of context then quote someone properly. I din't say he was "almost as fast as Bruce Lee". I said he was faster than Ted.

    Paraphrasing Ted while having dinner with him in Northern Virginia after a weekend event, which would have been around 1995: "In the 6 years I trained with Bruce, I never hit him and he always hit me." I can't begin to understand that speed and I take Ted at his word. I can tell you that Troy is faster then Ted was and Troy can apply it in sparring.

    I haven't disparaged anyone.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 2:42pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post

    As for LE and Military, we have current operators training with us now and routinely train the Arizona Tactical Officers Associatons http://www.aztac.org/ and have references from that community.
    Really well:
    Sport: http://www.gracieacademy.com/military.asp
    Sport: http://www.jbmbjj.com/Testimonials.htm
    Sport: http://www.policeone.com/police-trai...lice-training/
    Sport: http://www.ocregister.com/video/v/89...-brazilian-jiu
    Sport: http://www.calvertmma.com/Gallery/mi...-hq-with-.html
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 2:56pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    It is Fake,

    As usual, it is easier to take something out of context then quote someone properly. I din't say he was "almost as fast as Bruce Lee". I said he was faster than Ted.
    It isn't taken out of context. The context includes your appeal to authority that involved using Bruce Lee and Ted Wong.
    We work out at the gym 3 and 4 days a week, doing strength training and cardio. He is in good shape and is super scary fast. The only other person I have seen with close to his speed was Ted Wong, Bruce Lee's protege, whom I have worked out with a number of times, before he passed away.
    I used sarcasm, in context to your appeal, and made a ridiculous statement that matched your hyperbole.

    I haven't disparaged anyone.
    Again, you do not understand that word. You have made multiple disparaging comments.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 3:05pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    Hi Goldust,

    As usual, there is no context given to the quote by you, someone that has been unwilling to come in and work out with us, even after being given every opportunity to see what we do. Similar to all of the comments about the ferocious five, the comments about our grappling defense are taken without any direct knowledge of what is or will be taught.
    Feel free to go **** yourself. I offered and you fuckers went all agro on me.
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 3:07pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMMA View Post
    What a great thread.

    As usual though its all talk.

    I want to see Troy defeat an MMA trained opponent of equivalent size.

    In fact some kind of video evidence of anyone of Troys students defeating an MMA trained opponent using skills learnt in Troys class.

    After reading this entire thread I cant believe people are so genuine in thier defence of eye gouging, throat grabbing etc...its comical.

    Sorry, I dont mean to disturb the thread. Continue.

    P.S - The benefit of training MMA is the athletic strength and conditioning that comes with it, after seeing that video I find it hard to believe Troys earlier comments about "Running" away. I think the dangers Troy needs to worry about are more likely high cholesterol and heart probelms rather than knife wielding attackers.
    Why wouldn't we be in defense of eye gouging and throat grabbing. They're valid techniques. It's when you rely solely on these techniques that it becomes laughable.
  7. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 3:15pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    He is in good shape and is super scary fast. The only other person I have seen with close to his speed was Ted Wong, Bruce Lee's protege, whom I have worked out with a number of times, before he passed away.
    Is he faster than say, Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather... or to be fair, someone in his weight class, Mike Tyson?

    I mean, come on. I get it, he's quick for his size, but comments like this invite criticism.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 3:19pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Supreme View Post
    Why wouldn't we be in defense of eye gouging and throat grabbing. They're valid techniques. It's when you rely solely on these techniques that it becomes laughable.
    Right. Also, when you try to say things like this:
    Still, the very fact that they don't defend against small joint manipulations, groin attacks or eye attacks leaves them open to a wide variety of street based attacks.
    If you can't fight, block or kick properly, how are you going to get in range for the eye gouge and joint manipulation.

    Oh and arts like Sambo, Judo, and BJJ are based on joint manipulation. Many of them small....Oops.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 3/28/2012 3:22pm at .
  9. JohnKenner is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 3:29pm


     Style: Boxing, Judo, Kenpo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    Thanks for sharing your perspectives on other arts like Judo. I am familiar with Jigoro Kano and the history of its evolution, all the way back to Shuai Jiao, which is the root of JJ, Aikido, Judo, et al.
    And yet you missed my point. The question isn't whether or not the techniques you list can work, it's whether or not you can execute them. I doubt anyone on this board would say that small joint manipulation/eye gouges/throat strikes don't hurt or aren't debilitating. The real question is, without training them in a live-fire scenario, against a fully resisting opponent, how do you have any confidence you can apply them on the street?

    For example, in the ring, I know I may land my jab 70% of the time. (Maybe it is more, maybe it is less, but lets use that number). Now that is against a target the size of the opponent's face. How low would my accuracy drop when I am aiming against a target 1/10 the size (say an eyeball)? That's my point. There is nothing wrong with having these techniques in your arsenal, but to consider them your primary weapon, or even a consistent safety net for when SHTF is laughable in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    Not to mention there is a mental state associated with having someone take a bite out of you, ripping off your ear or laying your finger on the back of your hand when you grab them. These are topics which simply aren't addressed in sport based MMA schools.
    Not sure if I agree with that. When I was a wrestler, we used to talk about defense against small joint manipulation all the time. Its commonly referred to as "cheating."

    And for a twofer, on the biting/ripping the ear off within a sport - look at Tyson/Holyfield. Somehow, Evander managed to keep on fighting, after losing one ear.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    As for LE and Military, we have current operators training with us now and routinely train the Arizona Tactical Officers Associatons http://www.aztac.org/ and have references from that community.
    Which again, misses the point of my argument. It was that the military as a *whole* sees MMA as a valid component of combatives training. Also, what some Military/LE people do on their off hours is vastly different from being brought in by the US Army to help build MACP.
    Last edited by JohnKenner; 3/28/2012 3:35pm at .
  10. Goldust is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2012 4:19pm


     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sumito View Post
    We have offered for cage fighters to come in but no takers. The hitch is always the same. When it comes to signing the document about our usage of eye attacks and the risk of losing an eye, along with bites, small joint manipulation and the risk of injury that comes with that, nobody is willing to sign.
    Troy wanted to fight a guy who he literally outweighed by close to 100lbs. I know the guy and he forwarded some of the e-mails that he and Troy exchanged. In addition to insisting on including eye gouging, biting, etc. there were also some veiled threats about having students present who were involved in law enforcement and potential legal repercussions.

    I advised him against it. I told him that it didn't sound like a good idea to me to go in there by yourself and try to fight someone with that great a size advantage who's whole belief system is tied into whether or not his stuff works or not.
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